David Fuller: Navigating the Darkness of the Human Mind

Prepare yourself for a spine-chilling journey through the dark obsessions of the human mind. Tonight, we’re exploring the disturbing world of necrophilia, drawing upon its historical, psychological, and scientific aspects. We bring you an in-depth analysis of this unsettling subject, with the guidance of our host, Tiffany. We also dive into a case that has recently shocked the UK, providing a trigger warning for those who might be disturbed by its details.

We will further pull back the curtains on the sinister life of David Fuller. But beneath the surface, his life was marked by a string of extramarital affairs and darker secrets still. We talk about his criminal history, his unsettling fascination with necrophilia, and his alleged involvement in the notorious Bed-sit murders.

In our final act, we’ll examine the grim world of necrophilia in more detail, guided by the classifications in the DSM-5. We shed light on the infamous cases of Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Gary Ridgway, Jimmy Savile and the Boston Strangler. And finally, we’ll piece together the intricate web of deception spun by David Fuller, examining his ability to deceive staff and victims, whilst maintaining an intricate network of relationships. So buckle up as we unravel the mind-boggling mysteries of the human psyche.

References:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/david-fuller-sentence-trial-family-kent-morgue-b971925.html

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/R-v-David-Fuller-sentencing-remarks-071222.pdf

https://www.kent.police.uk/news/kent/latest/policing-news/david-fuller-sentenced-over-further-mortuary-offences/

https://www.the-sun.com/news/4009220/its-so-horrific-says-ex-wife-vile-bedsit-killer/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-59134272

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12219093/Footballer-20-took-life-discovering-late-mother-victim-David-Fuller.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2667656/

https://listverse.com/2018/03/18/10-twisted-facts-about-necrophilia/#:~:text=Strangely%2C%20only%2015%20percent%20are,the%20deed%20with%20the%20dead.

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/crime-history/4-unbelievable-stories-of-famous-necrophiles

Transcript

Tiffany: 0:13

Welcome to Rogue and Wicked. Rogue and Wicked, we're a wide, wide, wide, wide. I feel all punchy tonight it's like a whole vibe. I don't know what's going on.

Wendy: 0:24

I feel wonky. I don't know if that's the same as punchy, though.

Tiffany: 0:27

I don't know, I'm punchy, I feel goofy as hell and I know I'm probably going to be goofy as hell, but we're talking about serious, serious matter.

Wendy: 0:34

Well, how about start with a less serious matter, because I have a question for you, sure. You got your gifts this week right? Fuck yeah, I did. Do you know what? All the innuendos that each thing I gave you entails?

Tiffany: 0:46

Well, I mean not really. I mean I know what the candy was, because I asked for the candy.

Wendy: 0:51

Yeah, that's right, but did you notice I switched the boxes entirely? Yeah, so I told that's because this box is bigger than the other box. Oh okay, I just kept adding more shit to it. So the telescope is because you're a spine detective bitch with occasionally sketchy neighbors.

Tiffany: 1:08

Yeah, that's true.

Wendy: 1:11

A Michael Myers gardening sign to cover your hippie gardening and creepy loving cell.

Tiffany: 1:16

I'll have to post that on the webpage so all our listeners can see it too, because it's cute.

Wendy: 1:21

It's not amazing. I didn't know it was going to come in metal, but I was so excited that it did.

Tiffany: 1:26

Yeah, it's awesome. I love it. I think it's great.

Wendy: 1:29

I love it too. I had a hard time giving that one up Rose quartz earrings to match your new feminine bedroom colors and aesthetic, which you hate I do, but it matches your room and your aesthetic. I love rose quartz crystals though.

Tiffany: 1:44

Well, I mean, it's a color of love.

Wendy: 1:46

Yes, actually it's the rose quartz, that is the crystal of love too. Yeah right, exactly Then a sexy cozy peacock dress that matches the living room decor and our mutual love for peacocks. I can't wait to see you in that one that is so comfortable but sexy at the same time.

Tiffany: 2:05

Yeah, I'm going to take pictures of that too and post it online. It's in the wash right now. Once I pull it out of the wash, I'm going to hang it up. I might have to iron it, but if I don't, I'm just going to throw it off?

Wendy: 2:14

No, if you take it fresh out of the dryer then it should be fine.

Tiffany: 2:17

Well, it's been sitting in there for like 24 hours because I'm lazy. Yeah, I mean, laundry is like the worst thing ever. When I was dating a guy I told him one time alright, here's the deal when you first move in. Alright, we're going to do this, but I'll cook and clean and all that other shit, but like you got to do my laundry and fold it.

Wendy: 2:36

Oh shit, see, I like doing laundry and folding it. But you know what I boycotted a long time ago and it saves me years and makes me not hate laundry. What Folding socks I hate. Socks, I hate it I don't fucking do it.

Wendy: 2:48

I'll either wear it. For a while I decided my OCD is so bad that I'm just not going to do it. The amount of time it takes to match them, fold them and the fact that loosens up your ankles I'm like, fuck this, I'm going to wear a Mitch match. But then I decided I'm going to throw them all out and just get all crew black socks.

Tiffany: 3:05

That's what I did.

Wendy: 3:07

I did the same thing? No shit.

Tiffany: 3:09

Yeah, I threw out all my socks that were different colors, all of them and then I just bought like four packs of this.

Wendy: 3:15

You did, yeah, the ankle just below, just above the ankle and just below the knee. So it's so standard, right.

Tiffany: 3:22

No, I didn't buy that tall of a sock. Mine are like the, not the no shows. They're not that low but they're like, yeah, they're like a no show, they're like real low ankle socks.

Tiffany: 3:31

I got yeah, I got like four packs of them, so I don't have to fucking ever match a sock again. So what are we learning about today? Oh, we got to get serious now. Yeah, now we got to get serious because tonight we're talking about a very disturbing case that shocked the UK recently, and I have to give a trigger warning, because this case isn't for the light of heart. This is a case that involves necrophilia, and, while I barely touch on the subject in other cases that we've covered, I felt that the subject was interesting enough that I wanted to deep dive into necrophilia, and I did a lot of research on the topic.

Wendy: 4:05

I know that you intend on informing me about some things I don't know about necrophilia and Tiffany and I have done this before, where we've covered the filias as well as the.

Tiffany: 4:16

DSM-5, which was all the filias.

Wendy: 4:19

Yeah, so anyway, I can't wait to learn about this at least.

Tiffany: 4:22

Yeah, and as much as this topic disturbs me, I got into podcasting about true crime for the science and the psychology.

Wendy: 4:30

Right, it's interesting because I just did a tip talk about that, where I knew nothing about crime. That was Tiffany's thing altogether, but her and I used to love to traverse psychology and science and so that was one of the selling points on it is that I could learn more about this faction of those things.

Tiffany: 4:48

Oh yeah.

Wendy: 4:50

But Tiffany was years ahead of me as far as this particular faction, as it pertains to that version of science.

Tiffany: 4:56

Yeah, I'm a weird nerd, so I find the human mind to be a fascinating and very disturbing mystery that we have to unravel through medicine and abnormal psychology. Let's get into David Fuller's life. David Fuller, born in 1954, lived in a suburban neighborhood in a quiet little cul-de-sac in Heathfield, east Sussex, which is a quaint historical town planted on a busy highway or trackway as it's called in the UK that runs from South Downs and the Weald. The market section, originally known as Old Heathfield, was established in 1316, during the reign of Edward II. They even have a cricket club that was established in 1878 that has the most scenic grounds in Sussex. In 1993, they even built a badass castle called Browsham Castle using traditional materials and techniques. There's even a moat and a working drawbridge around this thing, which is fucking awesome.

Wendy: 5:56

I love European castles and cemeteries because of the techniques, the old school vibe that they create, and for that reason I hate American castles.

Tiffany: 6:08

Well, none of them are really castles. I mean because we weren't even around during the time of castles.

Wendy: 6:14

Exactly why I don't like them here. I mean, at least at that time, what they exemplified was something dark but real oh they're beautiful. Yeah, yeah, they are. They're beautiful, they're deep and they have some stories to tell. Oh yeah.

Tiffany: 6:31

This town was the place that David lived and raised his beautiful family. The 67-year-old enjoyed the simple things in life, like birdwatching, cycling and photography. Later it was discovered that David really liked photography, but nonetheless David worked as an electrician and a maintenance worker at multiple hospitals in Kent and Sussex. He also was simultaneously working in the Navy shipyards of Portsmouth. David was well respected in the community and by his co-workers, but David was no stranger to divorce. He was married three times throughout his younger years, and his second wife, sally, followed the group Cutting Crew when he was hired as the band's personal photographer, and Cutting Crew had a hit song that most people know from the 80s.

Wendy: 7:21

I just died in your arms tonight.

Tiffany: 7:26

You must have been something you said. Remember that old Diddy? Oh, I wish.

Wendy: 7:34

I didn't yeah right.

Tiffany: 7:35

Well, it must have been thrilling to follow Cutting Crew, cutting Crew, the Cutting Crew let's have a cuddle, puddle. It must have been thrilling to follow Cutting Crew around and be a part of the UK rock culture during these younger years of David Fuller's life, and they had gotten a really live life on the road with the group before they decided to settle down and, by all accounts, it seemed like David was living the dream life. David and Sally had gotten engaged and decided to get married in 1972. David fathered two children with Sally, whom they named Michael and Sharon. The relationship lasted a long while, about a decade, before the two decided to call it quits in the early 80s, when David was working as a maintenance worker at the Kent and Sussex hospitals.

Tiffany: 8:24

It was after his divorce from Sally that he started his career in 1989 and eventually left for a promotion at the Pembury Hospital in 2011. David received a pay increase and started working at Pembury as a maintenance supervisor. He was keen on keeping secrets, which I can only surmise was why he was divorced so many times. David was doing a lot of what married men do and I'm not saying all married men, but a lot of them do cheat and he was living a secondary life with his mistress, and not just one mistress, but mistress says plural. David was known to have at least two extramarital affairs, and at one point he had an entire separate two year relationship with a nurse that he met at work.

Wendy: 9:09

I have no idea how anyone can do that.

Tiffany: 9:12

Me either. It's just too much work.

Wendy: 9:14

It's a lot of work and it's a lot of deceit. Every time you have to look at somebody, kiss them, tell them you love them. You have to carry this Well. I guess if you have no remorse it doesn't matter. Never mind, I digress.

Tiffany: 9:26

Yeah, but I mean like let's just pretend for a second about the non-remorse thing not being an issue, like just the amount of work of lying and remembering your lies and then having to sneak around and then covering your tracks and it's just a lot.

Wendy: 9:42

Sometimes I wonder if they get off on that part of it, the suspense that comes with hiding something and getting away with it. Oh yeah, like, what you do when you're single is so different because there's no two-consenting adults involved in it, so nobody has to answer to the other person. It doesn't matter what crazy shit you do when you're single, stay single, yeah.

Tiffany: 10:03

The nurse told the media that she had met David when she was 27 years old and they attended work at cocktail parties together, which was brazen enough, knowing that he was married. But the two even went to a Beverly Craven concert together, flashing their affair around town. David's mistress described David as a quiet man but said he was really friendly. Well, I bet he was. You'd have to be really friendly to be cheating on your wife.

Wendy: 10:31

He's especially friendly with the ladies.

Tiffany: 10:33

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking. However, once a cheater, always a cheater. David ended the affair with the nurse to start another affair with a different woman. This side, chick said that David was a perfect gentleman and that there weren't any signs that indicated who he would become in his later years.

Wendy: 10:51

Did this side chick know about his other main squeeze?

Tiffany: 10:55

woman. I have no idea. I would assume that they kind of did, because I'm thinking he's like trying to hide them from his wife.

Wendy: 11:01

Right, yeah, well, if she knew about that, then he's no gentleman.

Tiffany: 11:04

Oh no, definitely not.

Wendy: 11:07

You know how mistresses be talking about these men, like they're the best things since sliced bread, I think you have to have a really low EQ in order to want to be what somebody else's man, because I have never even thought about it ever. It's an insult to their partner as well as an insult to me. It's like do I give you side bitch vibes?

Tiffany: 11:29

Yeah, no thanks. I don't want nothing to do with somebody who wants somebody else, and I won't fight over a man either.

Wendy: 11:34

Fuck that, no way, I just can't have him.

Tiffany: 11:38

Yeah, I'll tell a girl just take him, because I don't want him. If I have to fight over a man, why?

Wendy: 11:41

would a girl want a man? That's that easy in the first place. I have no idea. I just can't.

Tiffany: 11:46

No way, no. David married his third wife, mala, in Barbados in 1999. The couple moved to the historical town of Heathfield, east Sussex, and then into a three-story semi-detached home, which they resided in until 2022. These women knew the unassuming and womanizing side of David Fuller. None of the people in his life had any idea who this man really was, but the police sure did. When David was a child, he was in trouble with the police for stealing bikes and setting fires that damaged people's properties. And, like most criminals, that was the first sign of trouble, because later on, david was convicted in 1973 and 1977 for a series of creeper home burglaries. In each of the burglaries, he always broke in through the back windows, gaining access to people's homes undetected.

Wendy: 12:39

What kind of burglary did you just call that? Can you repeat that?

Tiffany: 12:43

Creeper, and I put it in quotations because that's what the paper called these burglaries, the creeper burglaries.

Wendy: 12:50

Oh, okay, I did hear it right, mm-hmm.

Tiffany: 12:52

In 1987, two women were strangled and bludgeoned to death in what the papers referred to as the bed-sit murders. Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce were beaten, strangled and raped in two separate attacks in Toonbridge Wells. David met Wendy Nell at a super snap store which was in town. She was the manager and he would see her often, usually whenever he would take his photographs there to get developed. He became fixated on Wendy, obsessed, and little did she know that she was being watched very closely.

Tiffany: 13:27

The night of the murder, wendy and her boyfriend, ian, spent the night hanging out at Wendy's mother's house. After a nice evening with the family, ian jumped on his motorcycle and Wendy clung to them as they drove through the night back to her flat. On any other night he would have just like stayed with her, but that night he had to get up early for work. The next day he decided to cut the evening short, shorter than usual. The two kissed goodnight and she waved him off from her front porch the next morning. Wendy had never shown up to work at super snaps. It wasn't like Wendy. She was dependable, a very dependable employee. Most of us.

Wendy: 14:02

Wendy's are.

Tiffany: 14:03

Yeah, the staff was so concerned that they called Wendy's mother. When they couldn't get a hold of her, wendy's mother called Ian and asked him to check on her daughter. Ian knew it was serious and decided to leave work early to check on his girlfriend. Ian nervously approached the apartment. He banged on the door but heard nothing. He rang the doorbell multiple times but no one answered. Ian, afraid something was wrong with Wendy, decided to break into the apartment by going around the back, climbing up onto the corrugated roof and shimmyed through a window. He said that once he had gotten into the apartment he just stood there staring. I could see Wendy's head sticking out of the duvet. I stroked her hair and I pulled the duvet back past her shoulder. I opened her eye and lifted her arms, but she didn't move. At that point. I was locked inside of the apartment, he said, and her keys were never recovered. It was as if someone had taken them from the scene and maybe locked the door on their way out. This means her killer would have had to have climbed into the same window that Ian climbed in to get into the apartment. Then this man waited in the dark for Wendy to arrive. He surprise attacked her once she was in the apartment, ian had to climb back out of the same window. The killer did to run to the station for help. What really broke my heart is how happy Ian and Wendy were. He told reporters that the pair were planning a trip to Paris to get married, that they wanted to elope in one of the most romantic places in the world, and Wendy even bragged to her coworkers how excited she was, but unfortunately she never made it to the altar.

Tiffany: 15:39

5 months later, on November 24, 1987, caroline Pierce was abducted outside of her home in Grosevenor Park. Caroline's neighbor heard a woman screaming and saying no Several times, but no one could pinpoint where the sound was coming from. One of the neighbors peeked out of the window, but it was so dark that the neighbor couldn't see a thing. Three weeks later her body was found by a farmer who was driving his tractor. The height of the tractor gave him a nice downward view so that he could see and in a water-filled dyke near the side of the road he found her body.

Tiffany: 16:15

She was crawled up in the fetal position, naked from the waist up, only wearing a pair of tights. She was 40 miles away from where she was abducted when the police examined the scene, they determined that she was redressed because she wasn't wearing any underwear. Police investigated these crimes extensively but couldn't figure out who could have done this. That is until they found similarities between Wendy's murder and the Creeper burglaries. They knew David Fuller was convicted of the Creeper burglaries and that his signature move was breaking in through the back window, just like the killer did in Wendy's murder.

Wendy: 16:52

Did he use any specific techniques and how he broke in?

Tiffany: 16:56

That was the only one, so it's the fact that that's his signature move was getting into the back window and entering the apartments through the back windows. The similarities between Wendy and Caroline's murder were striking the manner in which the two women were killed, that they were both raped and how close in age that they were made. Police think that it was the same man who killed both women. At the scene, police were able to find a bloody footprint on the cuff of Wendy's blouse, but at the time DNA was useless, so all the police had was a gut feeling and a suspect, but no real evidence to place him there. Police went cold. Decades went by. The killer remained free until police started using familial DNA to start solving cold cases. Once this technique was being utilized, the police were able to partially match the bloody footprint to one of David's siblings. It was no easy feat, because once the investigation was opened back up in 2019, police took DNA from about 100 suspects before they arrived on David Fuller.

Tiffany: 18:02

In December 3, 2020, david was arrested and what they found in David's home was shocking. Police found first off super snaps, envelopes from the same location that Wendy had worked and a diary entry showing that David had visited Buster Brown's restaurant where Caroline Pierce worked. The search also produced evidence that was found on four hard drives that were hidden in a chest of drawers. There were four million images dating as far back as 2005, which showed David engaging in all sorts of sexual activities with numerous dead bodies in the hospital morgue. There's no way he wasn't guilty. Yeah, I mean, they found two of the things that tied him to the victims in his town home. Did you know?

Wendy: 18:51

that only a few states in the country actually allow law enforcement to use that type of DNA search. So as lucky they did.

Tiffany: 19:00

Yeah, well, we're in the UK, so I'm guessing the UK utilizes it.

Wendy: 19:03

Yeah, well, I am just saying in the United States there's only a few states that even allow for it.

Tiffany: 19:10

Yeah, which is why you find most of the cold cases that are getting solved with the familial DNA most of them in the United States are utilized by the FBI, you know why?

Wendy: 19:21

Because they can surpass state laws, exactly.

Tiffany: 19:25

So it's mostly serial killers that are the ones getting caught with that familial DNA around here. But if you were to just try to catch a killer in your own state, like a regular old killer, that the FBI isn't involved in because there's not multiple bodies, they can't utilize it it's insane and they say it's controversial because you're basically going into people's DNA profiles that they willingly gave to find out their genetics and things like that and that it's not considered legal.

Wendy: 19:53

I believe that the government takes our fingerprints and our DNA the same way that they bug all of our phones and computers.

Tiffany: 20:01

Yeah, but you know what? I don't care if they use my DNA to find somebody in my family that murdered somebody, because if they murdered somebody then they should get arrested.

Wendy: 20:09

Right, well, we have nothing to hide. We've already submitted our DNA. Yeah, mine's already on file. So we were curious about ourselves and did it like oh motherfuckers, if you guys are going to know about us, we might as well too.

Tiffany: 20:20

Yeah, so nobody in my family better murder anybody than you Likewise. So each one of the photographs were meticulously categorized and organized, listing the names and ages of the victims, and, as if he had some sort of consensual experience with these bodies, he even went as far as to search their social media platforms to learn about what their lives were like prior to him defiling their dead bodies. David obsessively watched these homemade Necro videos over and over again. He became so obsessed with the act that he decided to take stills of the videos and created even more pictures to categorize. One of the hard drives had over 800,000 pictures and like 504 videos. On another hard drive there was a folder that he had arrogantly called Necro Lord.

Wendy: 21:17

Everybody who wants absolute control doesn't want them to say no to anything, like a Necrophiliac would want to be a Lord.

Tiffany: 21:26

Yeah, like he's the Lord of the Necro. Get the fuck out of here, you sick fuck.

Wendy: 21:32

What a way to have a grandiose image of himself.

Tiffany: 21:35

Yeah, piece of shit. It took six officers over five months to go through all the evidence, which included 1300 CDs, 2200 floppy disks, 30 mobile phones, 34,000 photo prints, negatives, slides and film camera rolls. The hard drives equated to about 23 terabytes of information, which is like endless. On his internet browser, saved in his favorites was a link that said torture, murder, snuff video. But I was unable to find out if that video was actually a snuff video or if it was just a search, so I'm not really sure. Of course David lied about knowing Wendy and Caroline before their murders, but when the police presented David with evidence that he had been raping corpses, with what they found on his computer, he at least admitted to the Necrophilia. David revealed to police that he would wait until the Toonbridge Hospital staff left them ward for the night. He would use his swipe card to gain access after hours, rape and photograph the corpses, while doing this completely undetected.

Wendy: 22:44

Is necrophilia illegal there? I know necrophilia, strange enough, is not illegal in Massachusetts.

Tiffany: 22:51

Yeah, no, it's um. It is illegal in the UK, oh good, but it's only punishable up to two years.

Wendy: 22:59

Oh shit.

Tiffany: 23:00

Yeah, so it's not like raping a person like that's alive with their conscious.

Wendy: 23:06

I'm surprised. I know that mass is a pretty liberal state and everything that it's not illegal to commit necrophilia here.

Tiffany: 23:13

Yeah, there's like a loophole, it's weird.

Wendy: 23:15

Yeah, it's fucked up.

Tiffany: 23:16

Yeah, it is fucked up. There's a couple other states too. I actually have them listed in this podcast, so I'll list them in a little bit. Between 1989 and 2011,. David was working at Kent and Sussex Hospital.

Tiffany: 23:29

The police pulled the CCTV footage, hoping that they were gonna like catch David in the act, so to speak, but he was very aware of the cameras. David would make sure that he raped these corpses out of the camera's view. Police were able to identify at least 80 of the victims using hard drives they seized from David's home. This made me really sick, because it showed me that it was all about opportunity, with little to no regard for the victims' families. Some of these victims were still wearing defibrillation pads, catheters and other life-saving equipment when the violations occurred.

Tiffany: 24:06

Some were raped shortly before the family visited the deceased or shortly after the family left. One particular woman was interviewed and said that she had been kissing her mother goodbye hours after she died. Later, she learned that David had been raping her right before she came to say goodbye. While the emotional sentiment of knowing that this is bad fucking enough, the transmission of disease that could have happened also plagued this woman's daughter, because that's all she could think of was, like the bacteria, the dirtiness of, like somebody leaving their fluids on her mother and then her kissing her mother.

Wendy: 24:46

Well, you and I share this belief that the body separates from the spirit world. When these types of things happen, the people who are still here in, stuck in their organic shelves, are very much part of the body that's left and that belongs to them at that point, and that's taking something that they, someone that they love, who they're saying goodbye to, and defiling it, which is absolutely evil to do, to anything sentimental, especially a person.

Tiffany: 25:19

Yeah, and aside from like the empathetical portion of grieving, just the disgustingness of the act itself to me is just like.

Wendy: 25:28

It's very gross and it's very disrespectful.

Tiffany: 25:31

Yeah, both. David finally admitted to abusing the corpses over the span of a decade. He said he didn't know how many corpses he abused but claimed that the abuse wasn't sexual in nature, but then claimed right up and wouldn't talk about the necrophilia anymore. Police were able to determine that he had abused 101 corpses in total, the youngest being nine years old and the oldest 100. Now let's talk about the necrophilia, because I couldn't wrap my mind around this subject. So I did some extensive research on the matter and what I found was that necrophilia mainly has to do with having a non-resisting partner who can be completely possessed.

Wendy: 26:10

Exactly what I said when he referred to himself as the Necrolord.

Tiffany: 26:15

Oh yeah, like an object. They want to possess this person. So this person with this paraphernalia looks at the victim as more of a thing they can own. Which is why I think David Fuller might have said that it wasn't sexual. But by the raw definition it is sexual in the manner that the person is getting off during the abuse. But the mentality is supposed to be control and possession. But being that David murdered Caroline and Wendy to have sex with them, that changes the circumstances a bit.

Tiffany: 26:46

I found an abstract that said that the unresisting sex isn't the motivation when murder is involved. To be able to determine that, the crime scene and circumstances of the crime have to be evaluated first. So it's not so black and white and cut and dry. Although it may seem like it, necrophilia isn't considered a mental illness. It's a paraphernalia. That's part of the DSM-5, meaning it's a subtype of fetishism. A paraphernalia can only become a mental disorder when it becomes an addiction. Contrary to that, on world health, necrophilia is considered a mental disorder and is not just a paraphernalia disorder. So I'd say necrophilia itself is a psychologically debatable topic.

Wendy: 27:30

I agree and I also think that with 101 people he's addicted.

Tiffany: 27:36

Yeah, I would say he's addicted to it. So at that point I feel like it's a disorder.

Wendy: 27:41

Yes.

Tiffany: 27:41

So, according to Resnick and Rosman, there are four different types of necrophiliacs. There's homicidal necrophiliacs, necrophiles, fantasizers and a pseudo-necrophiliac. A pseudo-necrophiliac is when a moment of necrophilia presents itself at just the right time, but that person normally doesn't seek it out. But according to the DSM-5, there are only three types. So the DSM-5 states that there's homicidal necrophiliacs, necrophiles and fantasizers. The DSM-5 breaks necrophilia into 10 classes that are determined based off of the severity and circumstances surrounding the act. 68% of necrophiles desire to be with a partner who cannot reject them. While 42% murdered someone to commit the crime of necrophilia, only 15% are only attracted to the dead.

Tiffany: 28:36

Pedophiles and necrophiliacs frequently find jobs where they're close to their victims. For necrophiliacs, it would be like mortuaries, morgues, graveyards, hospitals and funeral homes, but be rushed to short because only 1% of these types of professions have a necrophile working for them. Serial killers like Jeffrey Dahmer, ted Bundy and Gary Ridgway were all necrophiles. Ted Bundy would return to his dump sites and put makeup on the women he murdered and then have sex with the bodies until they started to smell rotten. Gary Ridgway also returned to his dump sites to have sex with the bodies. Ed Gein was a grave digger who dug up and had sexual intercourse with the dead bodies and also made furniture and clothing with their corpses. And of course we know Jeffrey Dahmer was a necrophile who murdered just to have sex with his victims, because he wanted to possess them and have unresisting sex with them, and he was very vocal about that.

Wendy: 29:34

Albert from the Boston Strangler that I did not too long ago was also a necrophiliac.

Tiffany: 29:40

Yeah, well, we'll go over the other categories and then you can place him in one of them. So I want you to listen to them and then when I tell you what they are, I want you to place him in one of those categories. Another famed necrophile in the UK was Jimmy Savile. There's a documentary about the child's sexual abuse claims against Savile. The documentary was called Jimmy Savile a British horror story. In the Doctor series there was no mention of necrophilia, but there was always a lot of stories of him working at hospitals, television shows and hobnobbing with the crown you know the royal family so he could gain access to children to exploit. It was later discovered that Savile also abused at least 60 dead bodies while volunteering at the hospitals in the UK. Jimmy was friendly with the chief mortician, which gave him complete and unsupervised access to the morgue. Savile was very vocal about the necrophilia. He dawned rings on his fingers that were made out of false eyes from a corpse that he had found at the morgue. He even told friends of his that he had taken the male and female corpses and imposed them in provocative positions in order to take photographs of them. He even rolled dead bodies around the morgue for fun before abusing them. So the UK was no stranger to the horrors of necrophilia.

Tiffany: 30:59

Prior to the arrest of David Fuller, criminologist Lee Miller said that homicidal necrophiliacs are broken down into eight subcategories that are comprised of four categories Cold, destructive, warm and preservative. Cold meaning that the offender has had sex with the victim two hours after death or more. Warm is when one has sex with the body directly after it's deceased. Destructive refers to mutilation for sexual reasons, and preservative is when the body has not been mutilated in any way. The subcategories are as follows, and I have examples of actual murderers who fall into these specific categories following each one, and that's why I want you, wendy, to put the Boston Strangler into one of these categories. So category A is cold, destructive. Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer had sex with the bodies more than two hours after they were deceased and also mutilated the corpses after death. Category B cold, preservative. Gary Ridgway, dennis Nielsen and Carl Tansler had sex with the bodies more than two hours after their death, but did not mutilate the bodies after they were deceased. Category C is warm destructive. Andre Cicatillo and Joseph Vacker had sex with the bodies directly after their death and mutilated the corpses. Category D is warm and preservative. Robert Yate and Earl Nelson had sex directly after their deaths but preserved the bodies of the victims by not doing any further damage to the corpses.

Tiffany: 32:37

Category E was dabblers. Richard Ramirez and Mark Dixie were dabblers, meaning they didn't fit into any one category. They utilized all four in different orders. Category F was catatonic, which means impulsively and explosively lashing out. I couldn't find any examples of the subcategory, though. Category G is exclusive necromutile files, which would be Robert Napper and Peter Sutcliffe, because they derive pleasure purely on mutilating the corpses for sexual purposes and not actually engaging in sexual activity with the corpses. And lastly, category H, which would be sexual cannibals and vampires. Robert Fish and Peter Curtin had sex with and ate their victims and or drank their blood after they had been killed. I don't know why Jeffrey Dahmer wasn't included in Category H, but I think he should have been, because he also ate his victims. But I think that he wasn't included because he didn't until later on in his criminal career. So which one do you think that your Boston Strangler case fits into?

Wendy: 33:45

No, you just gave me an earful to surmise and it's my first time hearing them all. But I would say, based on what you just said, that he was both cold destructive as well as warm destructive. I would think he's a dabbler, but there's a couple he hasn't done. But he definitely was mutilating the bodies and he did it right after and he did it a couple hours after he'd gone through all of their things.

Tiffany: 34:14

Okay, so I would consider him a dabbler then. That's what I said. I feel like he's a dabbler.

Wendy: 34:19

The cold destructive and the warm destructive seem to be his main two motifs, don't you think so?

Tiffany: 34:25

Yeah, and they're like the four subcategories, so I think that that would be.

Tiffany: 34:28

Yeah, I think he'd be a dabbler. You're right Now. Once news I got out about the arrest of David Fuller, the police were overwhelmed with phone calls from concerned family members of dead relatives. Police were forced to set up a hotline for victims' families. There were hundreds of people calling the hotline to find out if their family members had been raped in the hospital morgues. David was ultimately charged with 33 counts of penetration of a corpse, voyeurism, taking or making indecent videos of children and extreme pornographic images.

Tiffany: 35:04

In the UK necrophilia, like I said earlier, is punishable up to two years for penetration of a corpse. In the United States. There are many states with loopholes and others where there's no laws against necrophilia altogether. It's a felony in some states, but most states it's a misdemeanor. In Massachusetts, south Dakota, vermont, virginia and New Mexico it is not illegal per se. It mostly has to do with the circumstances surrounding the act itself, like if you broke a law to gain access to a dead body then you would be charged for that, or if you mutilate a corpse. It is punishable in most states but ultimately necrophilia isn't illegal in those particular states, which I found slightly bizarre.

Wendy: 35:47

It is, but when you consider how difficult it would be to commit necrophilia without committing a crime based on the overall dynamic surrounding a dead body, at least there's not too many loopholes that allow for it.

Tiffany: 36:01

Yeah, I mean I feel like they would try to find a loophole to charge you too for those types of crimes?

Wendy: 36:07

Oh, yeah, for sure. And you said it was only what one percent of the workforce.

Tiffany: 36:11

Yeah, it's only like it's not like these happen all the time. You know what I mean. And if they do, nobody knows about it. Right, it wouldn't surprise me that there's more than one percent, but you don't hear about it and like the only way you're going to find out is if somebody turns you in and you get caught on CCTV footage.

Wendy: 36:26

That's really. That's a good point. It's not like the dead can tell tales.

Tiffany: 36:31

Yeah, exactly, it's not like they can be like hey, somebody raped me, you know what I mean.

Wendy: 36:35

Like they're dead Right, no squeaky wheel. That's really sad, but true.

Tiffany: 36:39

Yeah. So like, is that really an accurate statistic? I don't think so.

Wendy: 36:44

I feel like all statistics, to a degree, are malleable, and not for speculation, though, exactly, but still, based on the fact that it probably isn't, I would assume that it's not a very common thing, no, and so even if somebody had the craving, they would have to get around all of the difficulties of trying to make that happen Exactly. So luckily, it's difficult for them as well. Yeah, good.

Tiffany: 37:10

For the few that do exist. Yeah, I hope it stays difficult, I hope it becomes more difficult.

Wendy: 37:16

I bet there are cameras now that look over the dead bodies.

Tiffany: 37:20

just in case, though, I bet there are Unless like it's like a private funeral home owned by like the same guy who's owned it for like the last 60 years or some shit like that.

Wendy: 37:31

And that's just right off the top of your head. Yeah, you kill me.

Tiffany: 37:36

No, David's wife had no idea what was going on. All she knew was that the police came in knocking and that David was arrested, that their home was searched and that he was suspected of murder. At David's hearing, Mala heard the full extent of David's crimes and was in utter disbelief. Mala was so devastated that she decided to divorce David and did not want to return to the home that they shared, and I don't blame her. She was quoted as saying I'm too upset to even think about what was going on. I couldn't live with it. You can't imagine how distraught I am. I could not stay in that house knowing what he did and what went on in there. And, as I said earlier, as far as Caroline Pierce and Wendy Nelgo, David denied even knowing the women, but after he was presented with DNA evidence, he claimed diminished responsibility and pushed to go to trial.

Tiffany: 38:28

Once the details of what the police had were laid out in court, David pleaded guilty to the crimes. This made the investigators raise an eyebrow and give each other the side eye. It seemed way too easy to get him to plead guilty. Police believed that he pled guilty because there may have been more murders that he didn't want the police looking into. They believe that David Fuller may have been a serial killer but haven't yet linked him to any of the other 3,000 missing person cases in the UK. But since his arrest, police are turning over every rock looking into other missing person cases, hoping that they can give their families closure. David's neighbor told the son that she knew Caroline Pierce, that the murders haunted her for years, so she decided to get away from it all and moved to Heathfield, but little did she know that she moved in across the street from the man who killed her friend. It's extremely confusing as to how many crimes he was convicted of, but when it came down to the time that David was given for the abusing corpses crimes, it ended up totaling about 16 years. On December 15, 2021, David Fuller was sentenced to two life sentences for the murder of Wendy Nell and Caroline Pierce. On November 3, 2022, David Fuller was charged with 23 more necrophilia crimes and was sentenced on December 7, 2022. He was sentenced to an additional 4 years in which the court added to his already concurrent term.

Tiffany: 39:58

Not only did he put his children, wives, friends and family through torment, but he also put the victim's family through mental anguish, Unfortunately, because of the sensationalization of the necrophilia that David committed. Caroline and Wendy were lost in the shuffle. The act of parapheria itself took the spotlight, based on the gruesomeness of the crimes, but let's not forget that these two women were murdered for this parapheria. The entire community, the police and the crown were disturbed by this case.

Tiffany: 40:32

One of the people directly affected by David Fuller's actions was Jay Carr. Jay Carr's mother committed suicide a while back, which was bad enough. Then add in that his grandmother was murdered by her partner. So this poor kid's been through some serious fucking trauma. Once the police told him that David Fuller had committed sex acts on his mother's corpse after her suicide, his mental health deteriorated and, sadly, Jay Carr decided to end his life in June of 2023. And I'm sorry for the family of Jay Carr. I have no words for this, except for that I hope that this monster suffers in prison for the shit that he did to these poor families.

Wendy: 41:15

That poor man saw too much darkness for him to go on living and that's really sad.

Wendy: 41:21

I know a lot of people feel defeated by those types of things, and that's one of the main reasons that sensitive people who go through such dark things do kill themselves. And what a horrible series of events that happened to him beforehand and to his family. But you know, what I wonder is when you said that he'd already been convicted of two life sentences. Now, when you have already pleaded guilty to two murders and you know that there's necrophilia charges that can be completely substantiated, why lie about all the rest? It doesn't make sense. It's nonsensical for him to know I didn't do anything else when he's already got two life sentences.

Tiffany: 42:05

Ted Bundy did the same thing, where he acted like whatever they charged him with was whatever, but he tried to deny it forever until he was going to be sentenced to death. And then he was trying to use those bits of information that he knew because he actually did commit the crimes to get out of things. And a lot of times I feel like they hide these things because they feel like there's got to be some loophole or something that they could fight, or an appeal that they can get themselves out Right, or they.

Wendy: 42:35

Could they have something to mediate with later on? Exactly, yeah, I guess that makes sense.

Tiffany: 42:40

You know, he seemed pretty smart. He was able to get away with like a whole separate life.

Wendy: 42:46

He seemed like he was pretty methodical in how he lived double lives, triple, triple lives, but and also how he set himself up to be able to do what he did, because he was able to do that with a lot of corpses.

Tiffany: 43:01

Yeah, and the fact that he was able to convince the staff that he was trustworthy. You know, he was able to, like, move in and out of the buildings without any questions. Nobody even questioned it, it seems like, you know, he went under the radar, which means that he was very unassuming and probably pretty charming in his own, like you know, because they said he was kind of shy, kind of like quiet, a quiet gentleman. Yeah, but very friendly.

Wendy: 43:27

Yes, I swear that most of them are.

Tiffany: 43:30

But if you've seen this guy, you wouldn't find him attractive at all, like I mean, I don't see how he was sleeping with so many women, because if you and I'm not, I'm not shaming him or anything because he's unattractive, but he's just, he's got this look about him where he looks like somebody who's probably banging dead bodies, like he. I swear to God, if you, I have to send you a picture. But he's got a lazy eye and it like shoots off to the side and he just looks like creepy, like he's got glasses and dark hair, his skin's real gray and like drawn out, like he just looks like a, like a weirdo. You manifest what you do. Yeah, I mean it's like when you have a dog and then like they say, the owner and the dog looks like it Right, exactly yeah he looks like a corpse.

Tiffany: 44:14

Like he does, he looks like a corpse.

Wendy: 44:17

Necrolord was the first thing that it said. I typed David Fuller and then I hit N for necrophilia and it typed in for me auto typed necrolord.

Tiffany: 44:29

Oh my God, fuck off, does he not?

Wendy: 44:30

look like a corpse. He looks like somebody who would try to be a 12 year old girl to get another little girl to trust him online.

Tiffany: 44:39

I told you he's creepy, he's creepy. I don't know how he did it. Yeah, like, how did he even have manage all these relationships and con all these people into it's wild?

Wendy: 44:50

right, he must have been smart and charming.

Tiffany: 44:53

I know I'm like because it's not looks that he's going on. It's got to be his personality or something I don't know.

Wendy: 45:02

Because he doesn't even look like a nice guy that you can trust either, and I'm not like like he said.

Tiffany: 45:07

I'm not like shaming him because it was looks or whatever, I'm just saying like in general he looks.

Wendy: 45:14

I well, I will. How did he do it, tiff? That was so thorough and well articulated on your end, and I've learned so much, as I always do, so thank you so much.

Tiffany: 45:26

No thanks. This was a really disgusting case. I was really upset. Happened to research it. It was awful.

Wendy: 45:36

You just got to stop laughing after you say shit like that.

Tiffany: 45:40

I know but I'm not laughing at victims, so it's okay. I'm just laughing at the fact that it's ridiculous and I had to sit here and research necrophilia.

Wendy: 45:49

The words that we say offline Are usually so random, it's like a game boggled, and instead of letters, it's words. What are you doing right now? I just tripped over a cannon and broke my toe, and now there's a storm shooting up in my living room, but it doesn't. We don't even face each other anymore.

Tiffany: 46:09

No, and you know what? I laugh at everything. But like I, I try to watch my laughter because I have me and Wendy have nervous laughter. So we do this thing like we'll say something and it's like really like wild and like crazy, and it might be like sad or like bizarre or something, and we'll just start laughing.

Wendy: 46:27

It's not just nervous laughter, it's also I dark. I use dark humor to cope with sad things.

Tiffany: 46:33

Well, no, I just use laughter to cope with dark shit in general, and I wouldn't say dark humor, so to speak, because I don't find it funny. But I can't control the fact that I laugh at things that are inappropriate.

Wendy: 46:44

I do both. It is a defense mechanism that my friends and I have always worked with, and we tease each other about things, horrible things that each other have gone through, and not out of hate, not to bully each other, nothing of that nature, in fact. It's a loving nature in which we do it where we can find stuff in each other and if there are little connotations that insinuate something dark that we've unearthed with one another, we'll joke about those things inappropriately and get each other to laugh about things that we would otherwise, or even while telling it originally cry about. Yeah, so we do both. But that was a really well done, tiff, and every necrophiliac joke that was in my head at three in the trash.

Tiffany: 47:30

Yeah, because it is really like it's weird, because it's a really touchy subject and it is really gross and horrible yeah.

Wendy: 47:38

And this guy's a real piece of shit.

Tiffany: 47:40

All right, Tiff. Thank you so much. All right, If you'd like to check us out on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube or TikTok, then you can find us under Rogue and Wicked podcast. If you'd like to join our Patreon and become a subscriber, then you can find us at wwwpatreoncom. Slash rogue and wicked. Our tier one listeners get pictures, polls and exclusive content. Our tier two listeners get all that plus a bonus episode monthly. Our tier three listeners get two bonus episodes monthly and all tiers get a shout out on the pod. Grab a copy of Wendy's book Sage. It's available at roguepoetnet. Any cool stories, questions or case suggestions should be sent to our email at rogueandwickedyahoocom. And don't forget to give us a five star review on Spotify, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The more reviews that we get, the more pod episodes that we can bring to you. Thanks for listening and until next time.