The Last Call Killer: Murder, Prejudice and the LGBTQ Community's Struggle

We're peeling back the layers on one of the most chilling, yet underreported stories of our time – the Last Call Killer. This episode has us navigating the dark underbelly of crime and prejudice, as we wrestle with ongoing challenges facing the LGBTQ community, and delve into a murder mystery that continues to send shockwaves across the nation. From the misplaced comparison of homosexuality and pedophilia, to the controversial bathroom laws, join us on this raw, unfiltered exploration of the societal pressures enveloping the LGBTQ community.

Let's journey into the heart of Pennsylvania, where a gruesome discovery in a trash bag sets the scene for a chilling murder mystery. We will unpack the victim Peter's life, the potential suspects linked to his murder, and the grim reality of Eddie's dismembered body. Our investigation will lead us deep into the life and subsequent death of Michael Sikara, a young man from Youngstown, Ohio who was found dead under mysterious circumstances. All these stories converge, culminating in the chilling revelation of the notorious Last Call Killer, Richard Rogers.

Richard Rogers, an average man with a dark secret, was the unsuspected architect of a series of gruesome murders within the gay community. Through groundbreaking forensic science, we'll discover how the police finally unearthed his horrifying deeds and the chilling evidence found within his home. Be prepared to be taken on a bone-chilling journey, as we explore the lives of Rogers' victims and the haunting legacy he left behind in the LGBTQ community. With a careful balance of respect for the victims and a commitment to unmasking the truth, this episode promises an in-depth look into a part of history that continues to shape the LGBTQ community today. Join us as we unravel these stories with a spirit of understanding, acceptance and a quest for justice.

References:
Last Call: A True Story of Love, Lust, and Murder in Queer New York by Elon Green
"The Mark of Killer" The last Call Killer 2019 S1 E2

Transcript

Wendy: 0:00

If it had been in a city, i would have had a mask for her in day 15. I would have killed her until they got me down. I wouldn't have been able to reach my way out of her. They are a product of the times that these are bloodthirsty times.

Tiffany: 0:13

Welcome to Rogue and Wicked. So you know that this is our rainbow month, right? I sure do.

Wendy: 0:21

I put some of my own rainbow bright clothes on and have been advocating on behalf of my big queer house and all of my gay friends, including my half gay self.

Tiffany: 0:31

Yes me and Ray we were going to go to the Gay Pride Parade that was in Philadelphia in lieu of this case that I'm doing. Unfortunately, we both had this real strong feeling that we shouldn't go and I think it was just fear because of everything that happened at the Pulse Nightclub down in Florida that just kind of had us on edge about being in a big crowd in a very controversial topic which would have been LGBTQ at the time, which is now, and with all these new laws and all these Southern states going on and a lot of the shit that's going on down there, we were kind of afraid that somebody was going to like bomb the place or like shoot it up.

Wendy: 1:11

Yeah, it's been wild with all the shootings lately too. There's just been a lot of hate in the air and it's, of course, you know this has been ongoing for like millennia in regards to like hate against anything that isn't quote-unquote conventional. But there's a lot of talk lately as it pertains to like gay people and being affiliated with pedophiles, which enrages me and I wanted to like bring it up now because, as we know, we discuss a lot of rape and a lot of murder and the general consensus isn't gay men doing those types of things, and you know if there is, you know there are like bad apples in every community. But I don't think it's fair to equate gay love, which is consent between two adults, with pedophilia.

Tiffany: 1:59

I mean just the word filia in PEDO. in that word filia is a sexual obsession with children and any filia is some kind of sexual fetish like necrophilia, hybristophilia, and then we got pedophilia. you know that's a filia. It has nothing to do with the gay community, it has to do with a sexual fetish, right? But I mean, i'm not a doctor so don't quote me on that. but I'm just saying, like to me, that you have to be really fucking sick mentally to like, and I think it has to do with trauma, because a lot of pedophiles are molested by their parents and that's why they molest other people, right?

Wendy: 2:34

because I had somebody say well, if love is love, love is love. But pedophilia has nothing to do with love. Gay can have something to do with love, because it consists of two consensual fucking adults. Nobody is getting their arms twisted and forced into these situations, you know Yeah well, you know what it is.

Tiffany: 2:55

It's the church trying to put fear into people because they don't understand it. So therefore, it's something to be feared.

Wendy: 3:01

And it is It actually has. Because of them, it has become scary again. You know, we were moving at a glacial pace in the right direction and now I, as a bisexual, living with two wonderful, two of the best men I know gay men I fear for. You know we live in Massachusetts, thank fucking God.

Tiffany: 3:24

Yeah, because it's like it's more accepted up there you know, here too Yeah. Even though we do have people here that aren't accepting. But it doesn't mean that everyone is like that. A lot of people are and you can walk around freely, virtually without worrying about, you know, being harmed, but it wasn't like that. You know for a long time and this is just recent that it's been a little more accepting as far as the public goes.

Wendy: 3:50

It's wild. It just seems geographically, some areas becoming more accepting and like safe havens and other areas are fighting back and they're becoming less accepting and these places are scary to consider going to now, as you mentioned.

Tiffany: 4:06

And it's scary, especially when you have these Bible Belt sections of the country that are putting these rules in place, like dry queen shows being banned and you know places that are trying to get rid of gay marriage and they're trying to put fear into people and this whole bathroom debacle. it's just like a lot And I don't want to take a stance on either side of it, to be honest with you, because I don't want to go there because we do have listeners that are Christian and they don't believe in that and that's fine. But I don't believe in laws that interrupt people's free will, because you know God doesn't want people's free will to be interrupted.

Wendy: 4:41

Well, one of the very few things that the Constitution represented to start with and maintains in separation of church and state. Those two things should be completely separate. We have learned this by endless and endless examples throughout history.

Tiffany: 5:00

I take a stance on that too, like they should be separate, because, to be honest with you, i don't really have a political stance when it comes to our policies and things Like. I know that people either sit on one side or the other, so black and white and left and right and all that other bullshit, but there's way more gray area to that than people think.

Wendy: 5:23

I have more blue and me than I do red, but I have some conservative ideals and I have mostly liberal ideals. But again, this dividing conquer technique is put in place by jumping on one side exclusively or the other.

Tiffany: 5:38

So I try to avoid that, knowing that, Yeah, exactly, and that's basically the point I was going to get to.

Tiffany: 5:45

It's just not So in lieu of our Gay Pride Month and everything that's going on, i wanted to do a case about a man who rocked the gay community in the 90s. I'm going to start it off on May 5th in 1991. A maintenance worker was dumping out green barrels at a rust stop in Lancaster, pennsylvania. These were the type of green barrels people would throw trash into. The maintenance worker was a pretty strong dude but he had trouble lifting one of the barrels. Inside he saw a black plastic trash bag and when he tried to pull it out he couldn't move it. He went searching for a stick to move it around and when he had gotten into the bag there was another bag. This went on for a while. It was like one of those little antique Russian dolls You open one and then there's another and another.

Wendy: 6:32

I have dreams about those fucking things.

Tiffany: 6:35

They freak me out, they're freaky, right, it's like Grand.

Tiffany: 6:38

Mons Day Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he had opened the last one, he saw what he thought was a loaf of bread. But then he realized that loaf of bread had freckles. He grabbed a radio and he called a supervisor to inform him what he had found. It wasn't a deer or a loaf of bread, but human remains. His supervisor alerted the Pennsylvania State Police, who responded to the scene. Jay Moose and Carl Harnish were the two officers on the scene.

Tiffany: 7:05

The man's body didn't have any personal possessions on him and he was about 100 pounds. He was small. When he was taken out of the barrel he was laid on the gravel. It was apparent that he had been stabbed in the abdomen multiple times, the back, and that his penis was severed and placed into his mouth. Police were perplexed because the way the blood had pulled in the spots of his body. It alluded that he had been moved multiple times before being placed in this particular spot. Also that he had died within about 36 hours before he was found. Based on the decomp, police also determined his penis was removed post-mortem. That is fucking fucked up. Yet is That man was fingerprinted and the weirdest thing is that the police had the maintenance worker transport the body with his truck to the morgue. That's a bit unorthodox, to say the least, but that's how they did it. Also, they asked the maintenance worker to take an AIDS test, which unnerved him. We have to remember this is in the early 90s. Everyone was going wild over the AIDS epidemic.

Wendy: 8:07

I remember that as young as I was, because in elementary school they were talking about this.

Tiffany: 8:13

Oh yeah, it was crazy. at the time You didn't even know what to do, like when people would come over. you were afraid to let them use your toilet and they had all this misinformation going around.

Wendy: 8:23

As you know, i had a family member who very unfortunately caught it and passed away in 2004. And I mean it was right in front of me so I was very educated the right way, but it was still scary, like we had, especially in the neighborhood that I grew up in. There was like on May Street, which is main south in the city I'm from kind of a bad area. There was a picture of a coffin with a needle in it. That said I was only fooling which was in regards to catching AIDS from the needle. Oh wow that's nuts.

Tiffany: 8:54

Well, just like you said, most people they didn't even know how you caught AIDS. There were people saying that you could get it from a toilet seat, like I said earlier. So people were up in arms, especially when it came to the gay community. Most people were completely unaware that it was transferred through blood or sex. Also, many people thought that it was the gay community that caused it. In fact, the closet, which was the city's gay bookstore, was bombed twice just that summer. The second time it was bombed, the target was the gay pride flag in the window because it was incinerated. Whoever it was threw four quarter sticks of dynamite into the store, which blew a hole through the back wall and the owner was shot at. Shit was wild.

Tiffany: 9:32

It was real strange to find a body dumped by marker 265.2 because the surrounding areas were all farmland. It's Lancaster, the home of the Amish. It wasn't normal to find bodies in that area. The area only had 13 murders that year and almost all of them were in Lancaster City. And the funniest thing I read about this was a quote from one of the troopers. He said this ain't like New Jersey, where the mafia is dumping bodies. Now how you gonna do New Jersey like that. Ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.

Tiffany: 10:03

Police believed the John Doe was a jockey because of his short stature. They went as far as contacting the Penn National to see if they were missing any jockeys. The racetrack was about a mile from the rest stop, so it made sense to check that lead. Unfortunately for the police, all the jockeys were accounted for. They recovered eight fingerprints and a palm print from the trash bags. They were entered into the database, but there were no hits. No one at the toll booths nearby noticed any suspicious people either.

Tiffany: 10:30

While the police had no forensic leads, they were getting tips. Tips were coming in from relatives trying to find their missing loved ones. Some tips suggested that it was a mafia hit, and one woman told the police she saw a 20-something year old man walking by the barrels in her rearview mirror. None of those leads ever panned out, though, and they went cold. Police put out a composite sketch of the man, hoping to identify him. They were placed at toll booths, and they did get a lead. The National Guard unit said that the man was one of theirs. They were supposed to meet as a group at the gap where everyone had shown up, but their friend wasn't there.

Tiffany: 11:06

Five days later, at marker 303.1, a truck driver happened upon two 55-gallon trash bins. Inside were several pairs of socks, a corduroy hat, two pairs of boxer shorts, brooks Brother, charcoal slacks, a brown belt, a t-shirt with a black dog Martha's Vineyard printed on the back and travelers' checks in the amount of $50 denominations. There was also a parking ticket found in various papers with an identification card to the first troop which confirmed the link to the National Guard. When the dental records came back, it was a match for Peter Anderson. He was a 55-year-old from Philadelphia, pennsylvania. A trooper found a note with the name of a woman written on it in Peter's briefcase. This woman reported seeing Peter at the Blue Parrot Piano Bar in Philly earlier that Tuesday or Thursday the week before.

Tiffany: 11:58

This was a gay bar in Philly's famous gayberhood. Harnish and Moose are interviewed all of the gay establishments in that section of Philly near Center City. They hit Raffles, woody's and 247. A lot of the clubs closed over the years but I have to say that Woody's is still one of my favorite bars in Philly. Me and my friend used to go there constantly and there was another cool bar called Sisters that was right down the street from Woody's. I don't know if it was open in the 90s, but it was a really cool bar and it closed quite a few years back.

Wendy: 12:27

Is it still a gay bar or?

Tiffany: 12:29

is it Woody's? yeah, yeah, it's in the gayberhood and that particular spot is a very famous spot and it's got a lot of history.

Wendy: 12:35

Oh hell. Yeah, I'm glad they kept that flow going there.

Tiffany: 12:38

Yeah, yeah, like a lot of the clubs closed, like Eye Candy and all that, and that was a really fun dance club that they had there. But Peter's favorite bar was the Blue Parrot. Police learned after visiting his usual haunts Uh, the blue parrot is cool. Me and Ray got kicked out of there once. The officers did find a second phone number in Peter's jacket belonging to a man from a church, the Holy Trinity in Rittenhouse Square. The man didn't know Peter very well, he was just kind of like an acquaintance. However, he did have a bit of information about Peter's life. The man told officers that Peter had been separated from his second wife and was working at the Mellon Bank as a portfolio manager. With this information, the troopers built a case file on Peter's life.

Tiffany: 13:21

Peter was born on March 14, 1937 in Milwaukee, wisconsin, son Tabetsy and Giles Anderson. Peter was relocated and raised in Pittsburgh, pennsylvania, and his sister was born three years later, in 1940. When Peter was 18, he attended Trinity College in Hartford, connecticut, to get his degree in government. He was enrolled in a lot of clubs for the elite Canterbury Sports Car, young Republicans and the Yacht Club. He belonged to the PSI Obsidian Fraternity, which was comprised of a bunch of kids who got into a lot of shenanigans. Peter was described as lonely and wanting to be part of the boys club but was really more like a mascot, which kind of made me sad, because he just tried to fit in and couldn't.

Tiffany: 14:06

Detectives had gotten a break in the case when tips came in to look into Tony Brooks. Tony was 26 and running for a seat on Philadelphia's city council. He was also a gay man who in his youth tried to run for priesthood. Because of his fear of being outed he decided not to pursue it. When detectives questioned Tony about his relationship to Peter, he said that he and Peter drove to Manhattan on May 3 to attend a fundraising dinner. They left Philly around 3 pm and arrived at Manhattan around 5. Peter came along because Bill Green was there. He was a New York representative that Peter knew.

Tiffany: 14:42

Meanwhile, on May 11, 1991, police visited Peter's apartment. It was a three-story building on Walnut Street called the Wanamaker House. It's a really nice place and the building manager even boasted in the Philadelphia Enquirer that they proudly discriminated against tenants. It had a 24-hour doorman, indoor parking and a health club. The single-unit apartments went for $100,000 and even had a rooftop view of Center City. The apartment complex was located in the Gabor Hood, which is the area with the gay and lesbian-ran businesses. So I know you've never been there but anybody that has been to the Gabor Hood it's a nice area. It's not like a cheap area. It's not like you don't see cheap apartments there. They're expensive and a lot of elite-ass people live there. The Wanamaker House at that time for $100,000 in 1990, i don't even know what that would equate to now, but it's got to be a lot more. I mean we're talking probably like $500,000 for a rooftop view of Center.

Wendy: 15:43

City Girl. it's really scary when you think of inflation between that and now.

Tiffany: 15:48

I know I'm taking a wild guess. I didn't look it up, but I'm pretty sure it's around that ballpark. Peter's apartment didn't appear to be well-kept. It was messy and he had piles of magazines in his bathtub. One thing that caught investigators' eye was a bottle of KY jelly that was on the nightstand, which may have suggested that he had a guest the night that he disappeared. These were able to track the guest down and question him. The man who stayed the night was a drug addict who was living with his girlfriend. There were blood stains on the man's ceiling which suggested heroin use. But after questioning the man, the investigators determined that there was no indication that either of them were involved in Peter's murder.

Tiffany: 16:24

Next they questioned Robbie Brown, who hosted the fundraiser for Tony Brooks in the political campaign. Brown sold high-end residential properties so they thought maybe whoever killed Peter must have traveled through Brown's Grand Upper West Side apartment that overlooked Central Park. Brown stated that during the fundraiser Peter stood at the entrance trying to get new arrivals to donate. Anthony Hoyt walked in and started talking to Peter. They knew each other well but hadn't seen each other in years. This gave investigators a new lead. Investigators put the heat down on both Brown and Hoyt. They were both interrogated thoroughly. Brown had to give investigators his trash bags for comparison to the bags that Peter was found in, but police really focused on Hoyt. Hoyt had left the fundraiser with Peter. Investigators gave Hoyt a polygraph test and he passed with flying colors. Hoyt told them that it was him and Peter that used to be roommates, but that was a lie.

Tiffany: 17:22

In 1961, peter moved to Manhattan after graduating from Tremach Trinity College. In a bar he met a man named Tony who said that he had a room for rent in an apartment on East 81st Street. Peter took the man up on the room. Tony, peter and Hoyt all became roommates. During that time Peter was working at the Bank of New York in finance. Hoyt and Peter had a romance that started as flirting. Eventually it had gotten physical. Both of them were firmly in the closet. They had to be, because during that time the state would bait and arrest anyone who was homosexual. Police would even go as far as using the most handsome police officers to frequent known gay hangouts to try to pick up men just to arrest them.

Wendy: 18:06

How fucked up, that is, get the fuck out of here. You're in no way Yep Wow. I mean, I know they've done that with prostitution, but wow.

Tiffany: 18:16

Yep, it was illegal at the time in the 60s, to be gay, so they tried to arrest people just for being gay, so they would bait and switch them. Their friends didn't even really know about their relationship And that's how tight-lipped they were about it. Eventually, hoyt married in the 1980s, but he and Peter stayed in touch. Peter wanted to marry in a high society and found the perfect woman. In 1970, peter married Sandy, who was the daughter of Edie. Edie was friends with Hoyt And Edie opposed the marriage because she thought Peter was a pansy. That was what she said. He was a pansy. I'm not calling him a pansy, that's what she said. So Peter and Sandy moved to Dettem, massachusetts, and Sandy remember I said that right, right, dettem I am not familiar with that.

Wendy: 19:01

That's what I was just thinking. But again, when you're from the city, sometimes you don't know the towns. And that sounds like a town.

Tiffany: 19:08

Yeah, it's a town. It's D-E-D-H-A-M. I assume it's Dettem. Well, I have no idea.

Wendy: 19:15

We have some really funky pronounced towns around here too, But where is it?

Tiffany: 19:19

Does it say whether it's in, Or maybe it's Dettem Dettem Massachusetts.

Wendy: 19:23

I don't know.

Tiffany: 19:25

Don't know about them. Small towns Yeah, i don't know either, but anyways. So he moved to Dettem, massachusetts, and Sandy remembered Peter at always being insecure about his height. She said that when she saw his tiny casket it broke her heart because he always wanted to be so big. That's what she was quoted as saying. Sandy and Peter divorced nine years later after she met somebody else And she eventually figured out that Peter was gay And when she asked him about it he wouldn't respond. He just sat there and stared at her. So she knew in that moment that he was a homosexual. In 1979, peter married Cynthia Reed and they had a son together. Peter was presumed to be gay by most people but no one questioned him because they didn't want to know who was cheating on their spouses. Peter was hired by the Gerard Trust Company in Philadelphia, which was eventually renamed the Mellon Bank in 1983. He worked there until his death in 1991.

Tiffany: 20:22

On July 10, 1992, burlington County, new Jersey, two public transportation employees found a dot disposal bin at a rest stop. They went to collect the trash. When the one guy was like hmm, something's not right with this garbage. He threw it into the truck anyway. He thought maybe there was like a pumpkin inside. So he decided to open the bag because he wasn't quite sure, and inside he found a man's severed head. It was the head of an older man with gray hair and his eyes were wide open. An upper torso, a left and a right arm were also found. In another bag were the man's intestines. Both legs and the bottom half of his torso were missing and were not found at the dumping site.

Tiffany: 21:05

15 miles away, 911 had gotten another call about a body being found inside of a trash bag. Inside the garbage bags were a severed human head, severed arms, a four inch piece of human flesh, an upper and lower abdomen, blood stained sheets, a blood stained shower curtain and blood stained gloves. The police took all of the bags to the New York Medical Examiner's office. The medical examiner put the man back together like a puzzle. It looked as if the man's flesh had been cut, but that the joint was disarticulated without sawing through the bone. They knew this person had an understanding of human anatomy, because that was an extremely hard thing to do with no experience. Do you know what disarticulation is?

Wendy: 21:51

No, actually I don't. I mean, there are some context clues in there, but I'd like to know what that officially means.

Tiffany: 21:58

Okay so, did you ever take a chicken apart? But I'm just trying to give you a mental picture. If you ever had to take a chicken apart and you popped the joints and then you cut it, that's disarticulation Not sawing through the bone itself, but popping the joint and then disarticulating it from that point, which means you would have to know where all the joints were, how to pop them. So that's why the police were like this dude has to have some kind of medical training, because it's really hard to do that without any experience. The man's cause of death was stab wounds and the dismemberment was all done post-mortem. Toxicology reports stated that the man had traces of alcohol and drugs in his system, which makes me think that he may have been sedated. Also, the autopsy had shown that there were ligature marks on the man's thighs, as if he had been hog-tied at one point. Inside the bag they found a pair of shoes and a wallet that belonged to Thomas Malkehi. Detectives also found a box belonging to white rubber gloves eight pairs of rubber gloves loosely and a keyhole saw, and then they found the packaging for the saw.

Tiffany: 23:04

57-year-old Thomas Malkehi was married with four children. Thomas was a good man who had gotten along with the neighbors and he was a good father to his children. He always planted annual flowers in his garden and was a warm parent who was not the disciplinarian. Tom was a gay man who would frequent gay bars while he was away on business trips. Tom was a bit of an alcoholic and his wife gave him an ultimatum about his drinking so he went to AA. She didn't know he was gay per se, but she knew that he was probably cheating on his business trips. She was kind of okay with it, though She said that his business trips were for his other life. Tom was a Boston College graduate and landed a job at the Honeywell specializing in the mainframe computers, Because that was the big thing in the 90s.

Tiffany: 23:50

On July 8th 1992, Tom gave a presentation about computers at the World Trade Center. He went to Edward Marin Bar and Grill until about 3pm with a friend and a business associate. Then he left to go alone to the townhouse. The townhouse was already being investigated in response to Peter's murder the year before, so detectives knew it well. Police were able to track Tom's whereabouts via his credit card, which left them with a few leads as to what his day was like. The townhouse was a gay piano bar on the east side of Manhattan. It was an upscale place with mainly elites lawyers, doctors and businessmen. Tom's wife didn't know that he frequented these places or that he was gay. She thought he was bisexual because she found a pack of matches that was from a gay nightclub in his pants pocket.

Tiffany: 24:37

Detectives now knew that Tom was living a double life. When police questioned people from the bar, a man said that Tom's was sitting alone and that that man had approached Tom's to strike up a conversation. The man said that Tom's was not interested in him and kept eyeing up another man that was farther away. Tom's excused himself from the man at the bar and walked towards the other man. The man at the bar noticed that Tom's and the other man that he was gazing at were both gone. The man at the bar was described as 5'10", with brown hair and thin, which was very vague. So the police didn't really have any real leads, because how are they going to find a 5'10" brown-haired dude? So the night after Tom's went missing, his wife called the hotel because he had never shown up for dinner at like 9pm, like he usually does. The hotel alerted her that Tom's was gone, but all of his clothing was left behind. They refocused onto the evidence just to get some fresh leads and what they found was a price tag that was on the glove box belonging to CVS. The bar code was issued to a particular CVS in Staten Island, New York. The trash bags also came from the same location. The saw was from a hardware store also within the same vicinity of the CVS. Unfortunately neither store had video surveillance, which is wild. But investigators were pretty sure that the person who murdered Tom's was from Staten Island. They didn't canvas the entire neighborhood but no one knew anything or saw anything suspicious. There were no fingerprints on the bags and the police sent out flyers to other police departments in case they had any similar cases, but to no avail. After this, investigators had no new leads and the case was put on file as a cold case.

Tiffany: 26:24

May 10, 1993, at 7 am in Monroe Township, New Jersey, which was 10 months later, Donald Giberson was waiting for a friend to show up on Wrangel Brook Road. When Donald checked his watch he realized that he still had another half hour before his friend was due to show up. So he decided to take a ride on Crow Hill because he heard that a blimp was in the area, He wanted to like peruse at this little blimp that was supposed to be flying by. While he was driving, he passed what he thought were deer carcasses. It wouldn't have been weird, though, to see that, because in that particular spot it was a dumping ground for trash leaves and miscellaneous items. He arrived at Crow Hill, but he didn't see the blimp. With minimal time left, he decided to drive back. Now, on the way that he was driving back, he spotted that spot again, but this time he rolled his window down and saw what looked like human fingers protruding towards him, which would have fucking traumatized me if I would have seen that. That would have freaked me the fuck out. That's a double take, Yeah for sure. So he panicked, of course, and he drove home, so that you know, he could call the cops And this is 90s, remember, nobody has cell phones. I gotta drive home now to call the cops because you got a quarter.

Tiffany: 27:36

The police ordered him back to the site to point out the spot where he had caught the glimpse of the human remains. He hopped into the patrol car and the officers drove him probably about like 500 feet down to where he saw them, And that's where the police found the body and it was grim. There was a man's left arm in the road with a plastic bag gripped between its fingers. After the bag was a clothesline and several feet away from the arm was another arm. Altogether, the police found six bags containing dismembered human remains. I'm having problems stuttering today. I don't know what's going on, but I'm not even going to cut it out. There were multiple stab wounds in his back and legature marks on his ankles that were post-mortem. He had nothing on him to identify him.

Tiffany: 28:23

Police did see that his head was in an acme bag, so they used that to pinpoint its place of origin. The medical examiner noticed that the body had been washed before it was dumped and they had taken fingerprints of the John Dota to see if he was in the system. He had two tattoos, one that said Linda and the other one that said Fast Eddie. The police department called the New Jersey police to tell them that this man was 43 years old and his name was Anthony Marrero, aka Fast Eddie. He was already in the system and he had been arrested before.

Tiffany: 28:55

Eddie was a known sex worker who had been arrested at the Port Authority in New York City. The bag that Eddie's head was found in said made with pride, President's Choice. This was a limited edition bag, so it was only utilized at 11 stores, and one of those stores was in Staten Island. This gave detectives a lead, because the bags had been shipped to either CVS or Acme three days prior to Eddie's body being found, So now detectives had a timeline. Inside of these bags, detectives found two fingerprints in a palm print. Also, the coroner found ligature marks on his ankles that were made post-mortem, which makes me think that after he died it seemed like they strung him up, you know, like a deer to drain the blood.

Wendy: 29:41

There's a whole bunch of variables. But I mean, first of all, i didn't think of that until you said it. Now I'm thinking that's possible.

Tiffany: 29:49

We exited Last couple of victims all had ligature marks on their thighs and on their feet.

Wendy: 29:54

And this person really does know like and added me really well. It also doesn't sound like he's doing it alone. That's one of the main things that this part of it has brought to my attention. It seems like I mean, perhaps it's possible that somebody did do it alone, but this seems like it would be a lot easier to do with two people.

Tiffany: 30:12

Yeah for sure. Police sent fingerprints to every state to see if they could get an identification. Unfortunately, the fingerprints belonged to a man who had never been in the system before, so they were back to square one. No one really knew where Eddie lived, because he was a resident of Philadelphia, but also he was living in New York City. The police didn't know much, if anything, about his past because he went by an alias And when police found his social security number it belonged to a woman who was born a year later. They did learn that he was born in Puerto Rico and he moved to Philadelphia, but that was it. His arrest records from 1988 to 1990 were sealed, so there wasn't much info there. He was known to turn tricks at the Port Authority Terminal and he did them for as little as $10 a pop, But I guess a 1990 something that would probably be equivalent to like $30, I would think.

Wendy: 31:03

Right. Actually, earlier today, when we had the discussion of how much $100,000 would be worth in the 90s, it would be $232,000 today.

Tiffany: 31:14

So while I was wrong by like a good $200, something $1,000, I thought it would be about $500, so I was wrong.

Wendy: 31:20

Well, yeah, i mean still, though I mean you were talking about an actual area, so that could have gone up exponentially more than the dollar has, because real estate is a whole fucking different ballpark.

Tiffany: 31:33

Yeah, that's true. So Eddie frequented the Raw High Bar, which was a leather bar in Chelsea, and leather bars are out of control. There's one in Philly Tell me about a leather bar.

Wendy: 31:45

I like the way that sounds.

Tiffany: 31:48

Oh, maybe. Yeah, I know, i don't know. I mean, i'm a woman so it's a little weird for me, but that's just because that's usually a strictly dude. These guys are like guys. They're usually kind of hairy. They like leather, they're like manly gay men. They're like into fetish shit.

Wendy: 32:05

God, I wish that did not arouse me. What the hell is wrong with?

Tiffany: 32:09

me. Well, i went to one and it's oh shit. I can't remember the name of it, but it's in Philly and it's called oh, bikes Stop That's the name of the bar Bikes Stop And they literally play gay porn on the televisions at the bar and it's like a real divey bar. And so I went in there to get a drink with my friend one time and I'm sitting there I'm staring at two dudes banging on the screen and it's just all day long they play it And I'm like this is so weird And I was like I got to use the bathroom. It's all old men in there. And then I went downstairs, to their room downstairs and it was during a festival and they're all doing all kinds of dirty shit down there. I was like we should leave. This isn't my kind of place, man.

Wendy: 32:46

Okay, all right, my fantasy was just ruined.

Tiffany: 32:50

Yeah, yeah, it's not the best place to go, but yeah, leather bars are kind of kinky.

Tiffany: 32:55

Okay, all right got it. Yeah, and the leather bar that he attended, called Raw Hyde, was in Chelsea, that's the Chelsea neighborhood of New York. Police couldn't really place Eddie near the townhouse that night in question, but he heard that he was two blocks away from the townhouse the night he was killed. It couldn't be corroborated, however, because there wasn't anything two blocks from the townhouse no other bars or anything, just a corner. Police tried to retrace Eddie's last steps that night and found out that on May 5, 1993, he was staying over Santiago's house. He was a friend of Eddie's for like six years. Eddie had no permanent address so he would crash with people from time to time And Santiago said that he and Eddie smoked some of that sweet ganja, and then Eddie said he was going to head to the village to work. He left and never came back to Santiago's birthday party, which was three days later. In autopsy revealed that Eddie was killed three to five days before his body was found. The cuts to his limbs said that his killer used a saw and his toxicology report came back positive for marijuana, but that's all she wrote. Police ran the fingerprints that they had that were found on the body, but nothing came up and police were baffled that this guy wasn't in the system yet. Police at a dead end. when they questioned all of Eddie's acquaintances, no one seemed to really know anything. At 7 am on July 31, 1993, a man was collecting bottles and cans and stumbled across a briefcase that had identification a wallet, pants, shoes and a shirt belonging to 52-year-old Michael Sikara. The man drove the belongings to the police station in Haverstraw and dropped them off.

Tiffany: 34:33

A few hours later a man who owned a food truck arrived at Overlook around 10.30 am. Just as a purple van was pulling out of the lot. he found a barrel that was nearly full, which was odd because it was a third of the way full the day before when he left. He was kind of pissed off about it because people weren't supposed to be dumping shit there. He decided to search the bags to see if he could find an address so he could take the trash and dump it on their doorstep. just to be a prick, inside a partially opened bag was a human head staring up at him. He also found a set of arms, double-bagged, and at 11.15 am he sent a customer to contact the Haverstraw police. I guess he didn't want to leave the food truck. I thought that was a little odd. At 10.30 am he finds it, and an hour later on the—no, it was probably 45 minutes later he sent a customer to contact the Haverstraw police.

Wendy: 35:25

That is kind of strange. I mean especially, he has no involvement, so it's not like he had to come up with some kind of plan or anything.

Tiffany: 35:31

No, i think he just didn't want to leave his food truck because he wanted to make his money for the day, i don't know, wow. So the Haverstraw police were ill-equipped to handle such a murder investigation, so they solicited the help of the state police, who sent detectives. The vendor told police that he thought the man was dumped overnight because he wasn't there today before. There was no blood and it appeared that he had been killed somewhere else and then dumped in that location. Michael was born in Youngstown, ohio, on September 19, 1937. The Sikara family lived there in a nice three-bedroom house on the south side which they had purchased. After Michael was born, michael's parents had a toxic relationship and often fought. Sometimes it ended in domestic violence that would affect the relationship between Michael and his father. In 1949, michael's sister was born and she looked up to her big brother. Michael was very protective of his sister and they had a great relationship. Michael had a ton of hobbies but really took to drawing, dance and music. Michael played the accordion and the piano and he was also in the acapella choir in school. He was so into Broadway that he played in a few productions at the local playhouse. Michael was intelligent and even skipped a grade in school. He was a member of the Honor Society and his parents pushed him to go to college. Michael's family knew something was different about him but couldn't quite put their finger on it. He graduated from South High in 1954 and then enlisted in the Army. Michael became a medic, but he was terminated under undesirable discharge. They didn't have a term for being gay in the Army, but undesirable discharge was code for queer is basically what that meant. They discharged him for being gay. So which is fucked up. But in 1961, michael was living in Manhattan, new York, and was arrested for a lewd act but ultimately was acquitted.

Tiffany: 37:19

Not much is known about Michael's first 15 years in New York. He was described as distinguished, suave and talented. People knew that he was gay, but he wasn't what they called a flaming queen quote-unquote. According to a friend from back home, michael met his first boyfriend in New York and they dated for nine years and then broke up. Seven months before his death, unfortunately, his ex-boyfriend became the prime suspect in his murder. He told detectives that Michael wasn't into picking up guys and that the person that he went home with would have had to be in somebody that he knew. Michael's ex went to the news media to claim his innocence and told the media everything that the police asked him and said that he had nothing to do with it. There were no fingerprints on his body or on the bags.

Tiffany: 38:05

Michael would frequent the Five Oaks piano bar after work every night. He would come down to the bar and sit on his regular bar stool until 4 am. He was big and tall and he was described as dignified, regal and a gentleman. Michael was always bringing people together, introducing people to other people and kind of knew everything that was going on there. Michael would even sing at the bar from time to time. That particular night Michael's friend, lisa Hall, saw a man sit next to him. The way the man walked up to Michael and sat with him gave Lisa the impression that Michael knew the man. Michael introduced the man to Lisa as Mark or John and said that he was a nurse at St Vincent's. The manager told Lisa that Michael had left with this man. He was never seen again after that moment.

Tiffany: 38:50

Lisa gave detailed description of the man to the police to help come up with a composite sketch. She told them where the man claimed to work, so detectives sent the sketch to St Vincent in hopes that somebody would recognize this man. The media picked up the sketch and distributed it everywhere, especially in the tri-state area and New York City. The media nicknamed him the last call killer because he would pick up men at bars and after last call he would leave with them and kill them. Also, police questioned the patrons and the people near or around the bar. That night They found two separate homeless panhandlers. Both said that they saw Michael walking with a man that night. They both gave a detailed description to police but because the man was very vanilla and very regular it was like trying to find a fucking needle in a haystack. The gay and lesbian violence group put out a reward for information leading to the killer.

Tiffany: 39:41

The police arranged a 20-person task force. Investigators had gotten a tip from an employee at St Vincent's Hospital which led them to a potential suspect, mark Slayton. He lived in the same neighborhood as the items that were purchased and used in the killings. Mark was questioned and asked if he had ever been in New Jersey and when asked where he was on the dates of the murders he had solid alibis for those specific dates. Mark's fingerprints were taken and then he was released On August 8th. A firefighter was riding his motorcycle when he spotted deer bones. He smelled something, though that was way more foul than deer bones, and decided to investigate it. He found the rest of Michael's body nine miles north of where his head and arms were found.

Tiffany: 40:24

Police had gotten a hit on a two-year unsolved murder, the murder of Peter Anderson, whom we spoke of in the beginning of the story. Police believed that Peter was the killer's first victim because he wasn't dismembered like the others. He was mutilated but not dismembered. Around the same time the fingerprints from Mark Slayton came back as NOT the match for the killer, so investigators were back at square one again and in 1993 the case went cold and no new leads came in. In 1999, thomas Malkahi's wife met with investigators after her personal PI told them about a new forensic science that he had seen on TV.

Tiffany: 41:02

Vmd had been around since the 1970s but was traditionally used to lift fingerprints from a regular plastic surface. Normally they would be lifted using super glue fuming. The process was different now. Instead they were using vacuum metal deposition. Now I'm gonna explain to you what this is, because fucking science and I love it and I got all the details on this because I wanted to know about it and I'm sure our listeners do too, because you don't hear a lot of true crime podcasters talking about what they actually do to get this shit done. So the police drove the bags to Toronto, which is unorthodox, and that's where they had this lab to use this new technique, and it was fucking fascinating.

Tiffany: 41:41

They took the bags to the chamber there's a chamber, two at a time and they hung them up. Then they put six drops of cyan-o I can't say this word, but I'm gonna try it cyan-o-acrylate into an aluminum dish. A fan would then circulate the fumes from the reaction to warm up the glue to about 300 degrees Fahrenheit. This made the glue adhere to the latent fingerprints. After about like 20 minutes of this process, then they would release the gas from the chamber via the sealing vent and then remove the bags. You have to wait until the fumes are gone, though, because this process uses cyanide gas and, as we know, cyanide is a very deadly gas.

Tiffany: 42:19

Afterwards, the bags would be sprayed with a pink dye and alcohol. Then the prints would be put in under an argon laser, which we use at work and that made the fingerprints glow. The fingerprints were then put back into the chamber with a dish of 24 karat gold and a dish with zinc. It was then vacuum sealed and the 24 karat gold would vaporize, and then the zinc was warmed until it adhered to the gold. What was left was a silver fingerprint, completely intact. If it went well and it did They were able to extract nine fingerprints using this process, and then they were loaded into the system. Fucking science, right.

Wendy: 42:57

I'm waiting. Was there a match Give me that climax?

Tiffany: 43:02

Don't get too horny now because I'm going to give it to you. Go get that climax, you're sick. In 2001, a fingerprint examiner in the state of Maine said they had a match to the fingerprints that were in the database. The fingerprints were a match to a man by the name of Richard Rogers. Investigators contacted Lisa, michael's best friend, to see if she could identify Richard as the man she saw on the piano bar that night. Lisa instantly recognized him from the photo lineup and said that's the guy. Police started building a file on Richard and interviewed all of his friends and the people who knew him.

Tiffany: 43:39

Born on June 16, 1950, rogers grew up in Plymouth, massachusetts, before he and his family moved to Florida in the early 1960s. He was the eldest of five children from a working class family. Richard's childhood wasn't out of the ordinary. His cousin described him as a gangly, awkward teenager who had gotten straight A's. Richard was neat and meticulous. He was also very protective of his younger siblings. His classmates said that Richard had a high-pitched voice and didn't have any friends. Richard was bullied and teased relentlessly for the way that he walked and the way that he talked. Richard didn't like getting changed in gym class, so one day his classmates threw him into the shower stall and then turned the water on. Richard cried as they made fun of him. This true scenario reminded me of that scene from Carrie Where they're like plug it up, plug it up.

Tiffany: 44:28

They threw it in the shower and they turned the water on That's instantly what I got when I saw that And I would have felt bad for him. But he's the killer, so fuck him. Richard was a disappointment to his father, who taught Richard's sister to hunt and fish because he thought she was better suited at it than Richard ever was. During this time, richard was rumored to have taken a knife from home and he stabbed one of the neighbors. Yeah, and this is like during his adolescence, so he was pretty fucked up from the get-go. It could never be confirmed, but his peers knew about the alleged incident. Richard was briefly institutionalized for the alleged stabbing and his classmates thought that that would be the last they ever saw him. Richard kept his sexuality in the closet during his entire high school career. He knew that it was dangerous to mention that you were gay at that time. Teenagers would beat other teenagers to death and adults were just as bad as the kids when it came to being different.

Tiffany: 45:18

Richard graduated in 1972 with a BA in French and that's when he went to college in Maine. He went to, i believe it was the University of Maine. I didn't write that in my thing here, but I think I remember that Richard was still an outcast, but he likes his college years He joined some clubs and even hosted homecoming events. On April 30th 1973, richard told his classmate he was going to do laundry on a Monday, which was odd. His classmate called him out and said Wait, you said that you did your laundry on Saturday. Richard was caught in a lie and then told his classmate that he did his whites on Saturday, but he had more laundry to do. Richard and his classmate were teaching assistants, so the next day Richard was getting ready to give a lesson when he was interrupted. A student ran in to say that a man had been murdered in Old Town. At 10.45 am between classes, a detective had shown up to the school to talk to Richard.

Tiffany: 46:09

The man who was murdered in Old Town was Richard's fucking roommate. Richard claimed that Saturday morning he found his roommate Fred going through some of his stuff in his bedroom. He said that Fred came at him with a hammer. A struggle ensued and Richard beat Fred to death with the hammer. He was afraid to call police, so he wrapped Fred up in a Boy Scout tent, waited till dark and then he drove Fred's body into the Old Town woods where he left him. The autopsy had shown that Fred had taken eight blows to the back of the head and that he had been suffocated with a plastic bag.

Tiffany: 46:40

Richard pled not guilty to the charges and he was eventually acquitted because he said it was in self-defense. The funny thing is that Richard didn't have any defense wounds. Fred was struck from behind and it didn't make any fucking sense. Regardless, they all tried that one. Oh yeah, yeah, but regardless, they found him not guilty of murder and instead rolled it in act of self-defense. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, but they said that he acted in self-defense, which I thought was fucking mind-blowing. But anyway, in 1982, during a four-week vacation, he traveled to Lakeland for a reunion. During that time, matthew Piero was stabbed six times and strangled to death in close proximity of the reunion. Also, there was a gay bar nearby the crime scene, but Matthew was en route to see his wife. He never made it and that case still remains open and unsolved to this day. But they're pretty sure that Richard Rogers was responsible.

Tiffany: 47:32

Allegedly, in 1984, richard started working for Mount Sinai Hospital as an operating room nurse. He and a half dozen other nurses worked in the children's unit overseeing recovery of heart surgery. Mount Sinai had some of the best medical nurses and doctors in the fucking country. They were extremely selective when picking staff. Richard's coworkers said that his job required a tremendous amount of empathy and that Richard had it. He was able to soothe patients and he was considered one of the elite members of the cardiac unit. In 1986, richard moved to Staten Island from Yonkers, new York. His neighbors didn't really know him. He kind of kept to himself, but they did see him bring men home on occasion. Two neighbors were in his home and described it as very tidy. He had vacuum marks in the carpet all going the same way. You know, like when you mow your lawn and you make the rose. He made his fucking vacuum do that. Yeah, he's got like OCD or something.

Wendy: 48:30

Yeah, I was good I did that. I don't know if you ever noticed that in upstate New York, but where we had those maroon rugs, I found it oddly satisfying to do that. Okay, go.

Tiffany: 48:41

Well and everything else in his place was all in its place, like his old apartment. Everything had a place. Richard was extremely organized and very clean. On July 11, 1988, richard went to the GH Club on East 53rd Street. This establishment served older men, which is what Richard was looking for. He took a seat next to Sandy Harrow and struck up a conversation about real estate. Richard was eavesdropping on Sandy and his colleagues before they left, so this is how he knew what they were talking about. This is when Richard wanted to talk to him about his apartment. Richard convinced Sandy to come with him to take a look at the apartment to see if he could flip it. At first Sandy refused, but Richard coaxed him by telling Sandy that he would drive him back to his home afterwards. When they had gotten to Richard's apartment, he went to the bathroom and then he offered Sandy a drink. Sandy said sure and asked for a soda, but instead Richard came back with orange juice. Not long after his first sip did Sandy lose consciousness.

Tiffany: 49:38

When Sandy awoke it was hours later. He was naked and lying on his back, and his ankles and wrists were bound with about a hundred medical ID bracelets. You know the ones. you go in the hospital and they stick on your wrist. He had about a hundred of them binding him. Richard leaned in and injected Sandy's hand with a hypodermic needle and said that will take care of you. For a while All Sandy remembered was somebody putting his clothes back on and being thrown into the vestibule of his apartment building. A few hours later he woke up and called for help. Sandy was taken to the hospital to get tested and give him a rape kit. The rape kit came back as he was not raped, but he also went down to the police station to file a complaint. Richard was arrested five weeks later, on August 18th, but was released two days later.

Wendy: 50:26

But it just boggles me like how many times we've had this discussion where all the evidence is compiled against these people and they get released and they always end up fucking up again. And yet arrests over these minor things that don't pose a real threat to society and they're locked up for longer. You know what I mean. The system is so insane and bas-accord sometimes. Oh, yeah.

Wendy: 50:52

If they're going to release the motherfucker, he should have been flagged the first time. He should have been monitored the first time, because when you do stuff like that, it always precipitates into more. You know what I mean.

Tiffany: 51:06

It does, yeah, but see, here's the thing Richard was tried for the kidnapping of Sandy Harrow, but it was literally Sandy's word against Richard's And remember this is the 90s people are afraid of the gays at this point, so that made the case more than circumstantial. This ended in Richard being acquitted because of insufficient evidence and he got off fucking Scott free. The next few years, richard worked and traveled. He frequented all the bars that the murders took place in, but strangely he never returned to any of them after a murder took place.

Wendy: 51:38

Hmm.

Tiffany: 51:39

Eventually, police learned that Richard was openly gay and that he frequented the townhouse bar, which was the same bar that Thomas Malkahi and Peter Anderson normally visited. At this time he was living on Staten Island, which tied him to the items found at the crime scene. Because he was a surgical nurse, he knew how to dismember a body easily. Police were looking in the wrong place, originally because Richard didn't work at St Vincent's Hospital. He lied to Michael Sikara about where he worked to throw the investigators off The dates for each murder. Richard was off that day from work, which was more than convenient and gave him no alibi. Investigators wanted to question him, so they met him at his work, the Mount Sinai Hospital, under the ruse that they wanted to speak to Richard about being the victim of credit card fraud. They didn't want him to run. This made him go willingly with the police without any incident And on May 28th 2001, he was interrogated at a little after midnight. When he sat down, police told Richard they were investigating the homicides of four gay men in New York. When he was confronted with the forensic evidence that tied him to the crimes, he started sweating profusely And he had a very nervous demeanor. He only admits to knowing Michael Sikara, but then promptly asks for a lawyer.

Tiffany: 52:54

Police searched Richard's home and they said that it was the neatest, cleanest residents that they had ever been in. He even vacuumed the carpet and rose so that all the lines in the wheels were horizontal with the room. The investigator said that when he looked back at the cases, all the cuts were clean, the blood was neatly drained and that it was all coming together Inside the residents. Police found the same shopping bags that were at the Thomas Malkehi scene And they found sedatives that they believed he used to knock out the victims. Inside of a drawer they found Polaroid pictures. The pictures were of construction men that were outside the window on the street. They didn't have any shirts on, which is whatever, But Richard drew stab wounds and drops of blood all around them, which I thought was one hell of an arts and crafts project.

Wendy: 53:40

I mean they should have been following this guy's trail this entire time, The first time he had suspecting. You know, if they had done that then he would have been caught far sooner than just after he came out of the closet.

Tiffany: 53:54

Oh yeah, oh, i totally concur on that. Police also found a video that contained body dismemberment and a bookmarked Bible. The passages were and his nurse took him up and fled and as she made haste to flee, he fell and became lame. And then another quote was When they came into the house, he was sleeping upon his bed in the parlor and they struck him and killed him, taking away his head, and they went off by the way of the wilderness, walking at night. And then there was another passage marked and it said And David commanded his servants and they slew them, cutting off their hands and feet, hanged them over a pool in Hebron I don't know if I'm saying that right, but the head of the ispoceth they took and buried in the sepulcher of Abner and Hebron. So those passages make me think that he was stringing his victims up to drain their blood, possibly over the tub, because the passages talk about draining their blood, dismembering them, and then it talks about him being a nurse. So I think these were very personal, bookmarked passages from the Bible that he was taking a little too fucking literally. Yeah, it seems feasible. Yeah, richard was formally charged with two counts of first-degree murder In October of 2005, in Tom's River, new Jersey, the trial began.

Tiffany: 55:09

The trial focused on Thomas Mulcahy and Anthony Marrero because they were the strongest cases to try him for. They had a pick of all the rest of them, but those ones they had actual physical evidence. So during the trial, peter Anderson and Michael Sikara were brought up as alleged victims of Richard storing the trial, but again, he wasn't charged for them. Although he wasn't charged for them, it was decided that they didn't have enough evidence to charge Richard for the other two crimes, and ultimately, they are still open cases to this day, even though they pretty much know that it was him that did it. The best part of the trial, though, was when the prosecution brought up his interrogation. I found this very comical. They talked about how Richard was taking big gulps of air and became flatulent during his interrogation, so he kept farting a lot during questioning and kept saying excuse me all nervously.

Wendy: 56:03

Sometimes nerve stink. man, Yeah, man.

Tiffany: 56:07

He didn't say anything but mainly nodded his head up and down, which to them was an omission of guilt. He was found guilty of the murder in the first degree and was sentenced to two consecutive life sentences at the age of 55. Richard will never get out of prison, but they weren't able to charge him with the other two cases that were tied to him, like I said, because of lack of evidence. Aside from Peter and Michael, richard was also suspected in the 1982 murder of Matthew Piero in Florida, and that case too remains unsolved. Now there's something pop-culturey happening with this last call killer, which American Horror Story just did a season called New York City It's like NYC or whatever And the entire season is based upon the last call killer. And I didn't know that until I already read the book. And so I went back and I watched, probably like the first, like six episodes. I haven't finished the series yet, but um.

Tiffany: 57:03

Only you, yeah Well, i wanted to see if it really was based on him. So I looked at it and there's a scene where one of the main protagonists in the story is kidnapped and he wakes up with about a hundred medical ID bracelets wrapped all around his, his wrists and his ankles and they inject him under his fingernail with a substance. And the guy who portrays Richard Rogers is a really tall guy, I mean way taller than Richard Rogers. Richard Rogers was only 5'10", but he does have the same kind of hair It's like brown and parted to the side, And he's also a nurse. So I found it very interesting. I mean it's very loosely based on the last call killer, but they took Sandy Harrow's story and made it one of the main stories in the protagonist's journey through the series.

Wendy: 57:59

You know what I'm going to have to watch that. It's interesting that I'm starting to get more into shows now as a result of you and my better half, but it's true that I told him as of late that I want to get into something of that nature because of what you and I are doing. I did have a squirrel moment and got him and I into Game of Thrones. Have you seen?

Tiffany: 58:23

that Game of Thrones? Yeah, i've watched Game of Thrones. I actually stopped watching the series, probably like the third season and because I got in trouble from the internet for downloading it when I was a kid. And yeah, so I now have HBO Max and I pay for it, so I can actually go back and watch it now.

Wendy: 58:41

Well, that's kind of where I am, too Like I watched season one and then I didn't have time for any of the other seasons. So I went on to YouTube and I watched my favorite of the Seven Factions, which was the beautiful blonde and the dragons, if you recall her, and pretty much the last season So season one, the last season and skipped all the middle ones, and he hadn't seen any of them. So I'm like this would be a good time for me to actually sit down and actually enjoy it, because that was another part of it too is I didn't really get to sit down formally enjoying it the first time, but yeah, that sounds like something I could get into once the Game of Thrones things is over.

Tiffany: 59:21

Yeah, it's really cool, like the New York City one, because they talk about a lot of the gay stuff that was going on during that time and they have like this weird. I'm not going to do it spoilers. I'll let you watch it because it's really good, but that's the only spoiler I'll give you is that they actually emulated Sandy Harrow's kidnapping and release And you know what, though?

Wendy: 59:40

all of these things seem to be loosely, so far as I can tell, loosely based on what actually happens with the true events.

Tiffany: 59:49

Well, yeah, they have to. I mean, there's a lot of other stuff in that series that has nothing to do with Richard Rogers. So it wasn't like one of those where it's like his story or whatever, but they just used him as inspiration for this.

Wendy: 1:00:00

Right, yeah, It seems like he more artistically inspired parts of it.

Tiffany: 1:00:05

Yeah yeah, they definitely used it as artistic and less of an actual true story, so, but it is really good so far. It's a lot of it's all about like the LGBTQ and murders that happened in the city of New York, so, and there's, i think, like multiple killers in it, so you should definitely check it out, as always you do a great and thorough job researching and thank you for that.

Wendy: 1:00:30

It's very sad. Of course you know that he would be a member of community and do such horrendous things to the community.

Tiffany: 1:00:37

Yeah, especially because the victims were, like they seem like such good people, even like Fais Dad, even though he had his issues.

Wendy: 1:00:43

he seemed like a cool dude like every you know, right when he didn't show up for the birthday party, that being an out of character part of him I was like you know, he seems like a pretty good guy Like if that was out of character for him not to show up to the birthday party, then maybe his inflections were mostly on himself, but it seemed like it.

Tiffany: 1:01:01

Yeah, it seemed like it. I mean, a lot of people didn't want him staying at their place, So that one particular friend let him stay there, i guess because of thievery and whatnot. But you know, when you get involved in sex work and drugs and stuff, that's kind of part of the territory.

Wendy: 1:01:15

So again, as we mentioned earlier too, and this brought attention to what he was a bad apple among the gay community.

Tiffany: 1:01:23

Oh, you're talking about Richard Rogers, yeah.

Wendy: 1:01:26

Yes, Because I mean, rather than having the empathy and the respect that he should know, subjectively know, because he's overcome adversity in that regard himself he tortured his own kind.

Tiffany: 1:01:39

Yeah, it's crazy.

Tiffany: 1:01:40

I think maybe some of it has to do with the fact that maybe he hated himself for being gay, because during that time it seemed like he was very in the closet about it up until like the 90s when it was like okay to like start coming out and it wasn't illegal anymore to be gay. So I think that's kind of when he started coming out and by then I think he just like especially with the Bible because he had the bookmarked Bible. So to me that says he was a Christian of some sort And he had some kind of weird moral code. So I'm assuming that, you know, maybe he kind of hated himself for being Christian and being gay.

Wendy: 1:02:18

Right. He took it out on other people instead of lashing himself. of course. Exactly That's kind of what the What's the thing to do.

Tiffany: 1:02:25

Yeah, i mean, i'm not a psychologist, i can't sit here and say that for sure. But that's the impression that I get, because most of the time when you kill a certain type of people, like men killing women, it's usually because there's some kind of mommy issues or they hate them.

Wendy: 1:02:39

So I'm assuming that this is kind of where he gets his motivations from, and even if you were a psychologist, they'd still be enough malleable room to speculate in this case, Yeah, I think so.

Tiffany: 1:02:51

He was very tight-lipped about his cases and he didn't really talk much about it. I haven't really seen too much with interviews with him or whatever. So I'm actually kind of glad because, to be honest with you, I really don't give a fuck what he has to say.

Wendy: 1:03:03

Right, right. I don't think, as I've said a million times before, i think their mics should be fucking taken off as soon as they get convicted And as soon as it's a black and white thing and it's 100%, this guy is guilty. I do not think they should have. They should be allowed to write books. I don't think they should be allowed to reach the media. I think that, because these are the type of fucks who generally do want attention, not to give it to them.

Tiffany: 1:03:30

No, so fuck him And. Yeah so that's the story of Richard Rogers.

Wendy: 1:03:35

So I'm sad.

Tiffany: 1:03:37

Yeah, he's a piece of shit. So if you guys want to check out our Patreon, it's wwwpatreoncom. Slash Rogan Wicked. We will be doing a bonus episode for our Tier 2 listeners and two bonus episodes for our Tier 3 listeners, and our Tier 1 listeners get polls, pictures and exclusive content. If you would like to check out our TikTok, facebook, youtube, twitter or Instagram page, it's Rogan Wicked Podcast. If you want to check out Wendy's book Sage, you can purchase it at rogepoetnet. And if you guys want to email us with any stories or case suggestions or anything, you can email us at roganwicked at yahoocom.

Tiffany: 1:04:21

And if you guys could give us a five-star review, we would greatly appreciate it. Every time you guys give us a five-star review, it puts us in the algorithm and we kind of need it Because we know what we do is pretty good, because we do a lot of work and we get a lot of great feedback from our listeners. But we'd like the push that we need. So if you listen and you haven't given us a five-star review yet, go on there and just give us a five-star review and leave a review. If you'd like, and if I can get a hold of them, i will read them on the podcast. So thank you guys. I appreciate you guys listening and happy Pride Month. Unfortunately, this is a really sad story that affected the gay community, but that's the whole point of Pride Month is the march and to celebrate coming out. So all right, thanks guys for listening. Bye.