Unveiling the Shadows of History: Christman Genipperteinga's Reign of Terror

Ready to tread into history's darkest corners? Brace yourself for a chilling journey as we unravel the terrifying tale of the 16th century's dread, Christman Genipperteinga. As we delve deeper, we will shed light on the story of Christman Genipperteinga, a German bandit whose life of crime was marked with blood and terror. We will dissect his notorious exploits, his involvement in the 1605 Gunpowder Plot and how this historical event is paralleled in the famous movie 'V for Vendetta'. Moreover, we will explore the power dynamics of that era, shedding light on the implications of possessing a supposed 'invisible cloak'. 

Finally, prepare to witness the gruesome and brutal end of Genipperteinga. We unfold the horrific account of a young girl enslaved by him, revealing the chilling acts of violence he inflicted upon her. We detail the grueling trial and execution that marked the end of this monstrous criminal. The brutal methods of punishment, coupled with our analysis of ancient crimes and their implications, makes this episode a haunting exploration not to be missed. Get ready for a trip down the terrifying alleys of history.

Transcript

Tiffany: 0:13

Welcome to Rogue and Wicked. Alright, so I'm running on empty. I was up till 4 in the morning last night. I'm having a full blown Halloween spooky season, fucking manic episode, but it looks dope. (Tiffany)Yeah, it came out pretty cool. I took a reef, and I bought a bunch of dollar store shit and a skeleton, and a bow and all kinds of other shit Made like this giant light up reef that cost me like $42. Cause I was like helping on not buying Michael's shit because that was like $54. And the quality of him wasn't that great. And then I found a centerpiece at the dollar store by taking like three pumpkins and like some kind of planter spray paint in it and then like add in a bunch of flowers. And then I just got like a bunch of those dollar tree real simple paper decorations like poison bottles and this and that and odds and ends and just kind of like threw them all around. It has a very Victorian, like purple and black, very like Halloween feel going on.

Wendy: 1:18

I love it, and Tiffany is very crafty. We've discussed this in other podcasts before, but if her and I lived next door to each other, the art would be endless between us, because when we're not, when we're not working and we're not doing our professional crafts, we are crafting, painting, etc, etc. I actually painted my front porch, restored it and painted it black. Justin's son actually calls it the Halloween house because we keep it pretty Halloweeny all year round. Even the wreath that Tiffany made would match our kitchen decor, because I have black shelves with spider webs, skulls and purple roses on there all year round.

Tiffany: 2:00

Yeah, my living room is very like peacock themed, so everything's like purple, orange, green, teal and gold.

Wendy: 2:07

Yes, it is beautiful. I have, I love Peacock. I have many hours worth of Peacock tattooed on my back, so and I'm looking at Peacock feathers in my face right now See, that's what I mean Our house, we would be perfect housemates, yeah Shit. Anyway, it does look really nice, and I think Tiff should post this awesome work that she does on our page because of the fact it deserves to be seen.

Tiffany: 2:33

Yeah, I'll post some pictures. Love it, thank you, I love it, I think. I already did, I posted. I think I already did. I posted it today.

Wendy: 2:40

Oh, okay, awesome. So, speaking of spooky season, following the Charles Manson case that you so cleverly bestowed upon myself and our listeners during the last few episodes, I couldn't help but notice some similarities between the 16th century killer we're about to discuss in Charles Manson Huh, interesting. Manson desired a home in a cave, as we discussed, and a Christman had one. Also, they both manipulated people. Christman had his group of bandits and Manson had his group of cultists. Each was exposed as a sick fox, they were by the women that they abused as well, and both were sentenced to death. Only Christmats was carried out, and it was carried out in a brutally old fashioned way. Torture, yes, absolutely. So. This man was said to have killed so many people that those riddled with commonly accepted 16th century superstition believed he had demonic powers. Sometimes he was reported to be able to become invisible at will and commune with a secret cabal of Dwarven craftsmen. Sounds so 16th century, doesn't it? Did you say Dwarven craftsmen?

Tiffany: 3:49

Yep, you know, dwarves were the original jewelers. Right, isn't that wild. The goldsmiths, the original goldsmiths, were the gnomes.

Wendy: 3:57

That is fucking awesome. Let's get into this guy though Christman. Last name Jenna Pratinka. That is quite a mouthful, so I'm going to stick with for most of this podcast to stop myself from becoming tongue tied and just mention Christman Even his first name's giving you trouble. You know what it was as I started talking about getting tongue tied and then I manifested it. Yeah, so Christman Jenna Pratinka, born June 1581, was a German bandit and criminal who gained notoriety for his violent and criminal activities, which included robbery and other heinous acts. He reportedly murdered 964 individuals, starting in his youth, over 13 years, from 1569 until his capture. That is so much.

Tiffany: 4:47

Yeah, that's a lot of people.

Wendy: 4:49

That is an obscene body count for someone who isn't a politically contrived religious leader. Speaking of twisted murder plots of the 16th century, I have to throw this in there. How dare he try to steal the light from the King James I of England who commissioned the KJV King James Version, which was published in 1611 and stamped with a death threat to those who opposed? King James is famous for three things popery puritans and witch hunts.

Tiffany: 5:18

I wonder if, in the King James Version, if Jesus comes back to earth, with what? Was it? A assault rifle.

Wendy: 5:28

Oh man. Well, history often associates him with the gunpowder plot of 1605. Historical enthusiasts and sure fans of the movie B for Vendetta may be vaguely familiar. But those who don't know, the gunpowder plot of 1605 was a conspiracy in England to assassinate King James I and blow up the British Parliament on November 5th 1605. The conspirators, led by Robert Catsby and including notable figures like Guy Fox, wanted to protest the persecution of Roman Catholics in England by targeting Protestant monarchy and government. To carry out their plan, they rented a cellar beneath the parliament building and stockpiled barrels of gunpowder. However, their plot was uncovered and an anonymous letter was sent to the authorities. So then became a search of the cellar on the night of November 4th, which led to the discovery of Guy Fox guarding the explosives. So you've seen the movie V from Vendetta right.

Tiffany: 6:26

Once upon a time I did, but I really don't remember much about that movie.

Wendy: 6:31

Oh well, this is actually what the movie was based on. It was somebody trying to kill King James and they did, yeah, and they didn't succeed.

Wendy: 6:40

Think of the firework displays and the burning to commemorate the gunpowder plot in the actual movie itself. That was done regarding the gunpowder plot of this alleged attempt at murdering King James to Noah Vale. Oh okay, that's a horror, criminal story ending of itself, but since it's a famous European crime plot, merely a few decades later, and because I'm a V for Vendetta fan as much as I'm an anti-King James first, I thought I'd include it. In fact, you know, that sexy line that V mentioned is actually based on the first line of John Milton's poem from November 5th 1605. With V for Vendetta it's a little bit different. The original poem goes as such Remember, remember the 5th of November, gunpowder trees and plot If you can't give us one, we'll take two, the better for us and the worse for you. That's the real version of it, okay, so anyway, let's get back into Christmas.

Wendy: 7:40

Christmas operated in the region of Franconia, which is modern-day Germany. While his actions have been documented in various historical records, some aspects of his life and deeds might have been exaggerated or embellished over time. Unfortunately, there is limited information about Christmas personal life. His historical records primarily focus on his criminal activities and the terror that he inflicted on the region in the 16th century. As a result, little is known about his family or his personal relationships, including his wife's name or identity.

Wendy: 8:15

Yet a condensed account of his murderous record was included in a collection of calendar histories and a book printed in 1581 or shortly after he died, in 1587. An even more condensed Czech translation of that account appeared in 1590, and there was even a French translation published in 1598. It was even illustrated with woodcut exhibiting the various details of the tale. That's one of the reasons why I decided it was worthy to cover, because, with three translations within the same century, I thought there was a semblance of truth to it. At the very least, Executed today says that stump story was only preserved in a single contemporary account, which states that he confessed to things like murders, cannibalism and consorting with a succubus. But all of this was done after he made a deal with a demonic power and was given a belt that allowed him to shape-shift into a wolf. Keep in mind that torture was involved in this confession.

Tiffany: 9:19

That sounds like a cool belt. Seriously, that would be awesome to have the power it gets, like the glove from X-Men.

Wendy: 9:25

It's funny you should say that I was thinking more of like the invisible cloak on Harry Potter.

Tiffany: 9:30

Yeah, that too yeah.

Wendy: 9:32

I thought if you had the choice between a belt that turned you into a wolf and a visible cloak, which one would you have?

Tiffany: 9:39

I mean I wouldn't mind the invisible cloak because then I could like steal things, I could rob banks. You know what I mean? I would be rich if I had an invisible cloak. Oh my God, Nobody would even know it was me.

Wendy: 9:52

Man, I was not expecting you to choose that one. That's funny.

Tiffany: 9:55

Well, I mean seriously think about it, you could sneak in anywhere.

Wendy: 9:58

That era was punctuated by power struggles of the wealthy making life harder as someone went further down the food chain. So in that time I would probably choose the invisible cloak and do you precisely what you just said. And this time I don't know.

Tiffany: 10:16

Well, yeah, because the invisible belt that one wouldn't stop you from getting like tracked at the door, though. Yeah, I know I mean not the belt, the invisible cloak.

Wendy: 10:26

Yeah, the invisible cloak wouldn't help with, like any of the leasers or anything like that. Either, or motion detection, right exactly, or heat sensor yeah. Yeah, visible cloaks aren't good enough for the 21st century. But back then.

Tiffany: 10:40

Oh, hell yeah, back then I'd be robbing all the banks.

Wendy: 10:43

Oh fuck, yeah, especially because they were beginning their oppression at that time too, I would have stopped them right in their fucking evil ass tracks. Ah, ha, ha ha. So let's talk about his luxury cave fortress, shall we? Charles Manson pissed jealous over this cave. Well, so a Batman I don't know. Batman's cave was pretty fucking amazing. Yeah, his cave was pretty sweet. Charles Manson would be jealous of both caves, I surmise.

Tiffany: 11:12

Probably because Charles Manson couldn't even get water out of his and he couldn't get the money he wanted to do what he wanted to do.

Wendy: 11:18

Fuck you, charles Manson. Listen and weep. He's like I already knew this. Who do you think I was copycatting? Ha ha ha. So I wondered if this was a thing in Germany at the time. So I looked it up.

Wendy: 11:33

But in 16th century Germany, living in caves as primary form of habitation was not expected or normal. Most people in Germany during that time lived in houses or structures made of more traditional materials, which at that time was timber, stone or thatch. Caves were sometimes used as temporary shelters or for storage in certain situations, but they were not typical dwellings. Yet Christman lived in a cave complex about one German mile, which is just over 7.5 kilometers from Birken cell, in a wooded mountain called Frabberg for roughly seven years. From the top of his complex he had an excellent view over the roads going to and from Trier. The cave complex was described as cleverly designed and lacking nothing. A conventional home required during that time. There were fully furnished rooms, chambers and even cellars. Within these rooms and chambers he hoarded the ill-gotten gains he obtained, rubbing and murdering his victims.

Wendy: 12:40

Show caves say that you can still go and visit his cave hideout, appropriately called Lippenshol, it's L-I-P-P-O-L-D-S-S-H-O-H-L-E. In case anybody likes to geek out on such things, showcavescom. It's amazing. It's a website dedicated to underground tourists sites all over the world. I had to save the link because while learning this case, it started to lead me down literal rabbit hole caves. I was like, ooh, I'm going to go visit this one and learn about this one. And hours went by and I was like, holy shit, no, I've got to save this for later.

Wendy: 13:19

Let's speak about his alleged victims. They were primarily travelers and merchants and others who crossed his path while he operated as a bandit from his cave. Like all information that travels through time, in the hands of scribes and those interested in European literary translations, pursuits all becomes a game of recycled information. It's like the game telephone Typically, the message is skewed due to being tampered with by the time it reaches us. As such, some of the details surrounding his alleged victims and fellow bandits could be subject to speculation. I want to throw this out there to anybody who loves history. I think all history is up to speculation, because it is the ones who win that get to rewrite history.

Tiffany: 14:07

I know Napoleon said some shit about how the winner always writes history.

Wendy: 14:11

Yes, you're right.

Tiffany: 14:13

That was Napoleon Bonaparte quote.

Wendy: 14:15

There are so many people who say that, though I mean it's a redundant and very true statement, I think, outside of the realms of science, in which case we can only be where we are on an evolutionary level and math.

Tiffany: 14:30

We know no truths, everything is yeah, we don't, but I do believe he's right, though, that the winner always writes history, because back then, that's the only way you would even hear about. It is what the winner said.

Wendy: 14:43

Oh, absolutely. And King James I to bring him up again because I can't stand the son of a bitch is a really good example of that. But it was said regardless of that fact. It was said that travelers who traveled in decent-sized packs were safer from his wrath as such in many dangerous situations, and that he wasn't biased towards travelers or innocent bystanders. He was perfectly content robbing and murdering his own partners in crime, so he didn't have to share their gains. He'd sometimes wait for them to help execute the offense and once they brought the loot back to his cave, he'd serve them lethally poisoned food and drink. It wasn't uncommon for them to last less than several hours after hooking him up with their services before he threw their bodies into a mineshaft connected to his cave complex. Did you hear that man saying he had disposable body options in his fucking cave?

Tiffany: 15:36

That's what I was gonna say is like, if he killed that many people like that makes sense as to why. Because hey, nobody looks, really looks down in caves like that. The systems are all tangled. And then not only that, but poisoning it's easy to kill a lot of people. Poison yeah, it's not messy.

Wendy: 15:53

You know, people aren't really suspicious of that unless somebody just doesn't come back from a dinner with you and that and imagine that he made it manipulates them into helping it become a little bit easier for him to murder and maim, and Then he and he invites them back and pretends he's gonna split it with them but instead poisons them and dumps their bodies and takes everything. And they've already helped him move all the shit back. They did all the legwork. Yeah, it's very HH homes in. I thought you're like that.

Wendy: 16:22

The details of his criminal activities and actions primarily come from historical records, accounts and Reports of this time. Historian Joe Wittenberg, who's a specialist of this time and specializes in early modern Europe social and cultural history, particularly between the 15th and 17th centuries, identifies two substantial, occasionally overlapping patterns of crime reports relative to serial killers during that time. She says Crispin was unusual in maintaining the same stationary den throughout his years of serial killing Because more often accounts tell of robbers traveling, meeting and assembling with other robbers or the devil on their journeys. She also noted that Jenna pretenda had a pattern of hoarding his gains in his cave, which I kind of find intriguing, like he didn't just Live in a cave. Deck his cave out, drop all the bodies there. He actually like Stalked that a cave with all of his shit.

Tiffany: 17:30

It gives me a very dovetails feel. Say that that he kept all his money and shit down in the cave. Like I cannot.

Wendy: 17:38

Believe that I had Count Chocula this weekend and you just mentioned dovetails, because those two things used to go Handed in from me.

Tiffany: 17:48

Yeah, but I mean remember, you jump in the cloud.

Wendy: 17:50

Yes, I do.

Tiffany: 17:52

Yes, that's why I envision Crispin doing Wow.

Wendy: 17:57

Thanks for that. Now I'm gonna have that stupid theme song stuck in my head though, yeah tails. Whoo yeah, oh shit. So one of the most intriguing facts about him was the detailed journal he allegedly kept about his killings, in which he detailed the murders of all 964 individuals and a tally of the loot he gained from them. The diary was allegedly found among his possessions mentioning the intention to appease the devil, while describing his plan to kill a thousand people in order to do so. Wow right.

Tiffany: 18:34

Yeah, that's wild.

Wendy: 18:35

I was just yeah, it was wild. I know this whole entire case. I was like I Wow, this is outlandish, and one of the more detailed and horrifying aspects of the story is About the woman that he tortured, the same woman who returned the favor and kind by leading authorities to inflict the justice he fucking deserves. It's called karma bitch. Oh yeah, I'll wait until you hear how this karma was inflicted. The one thing I needed out of this, after discussing Charles Manson, who didn't serve the death sentence he should have, was watching this piece of shit get the death sentence he actually deserved.

Tiffany: 19:16

I don't know. I still got some sick pleasure out of the fact that Charles Manson had to suck and fuck his way through prison Under the Aryan Nation in order to, like, survive for a while, so. I mean, I think he did get a lot back no-transcript.

Wendy: 19:29

But this is better, trust me, I bet you know 16th century torture does not fuck around.

Tiffany: 19:35

Yeah, I wanted to do an episode on medieval torture.

Wendy: 19:39

I know you told me that while we were doing the Charles Manson thing, which made me think, oh wow, tiffany is going to love this.

Tiffany: 19:46

Oh yeah, baby.

Wendy: 19:47

All right not to sound like vigilantes guys.

Tiffany: 19:51

Well, I like history and I like some of the crazy torture devices that they used to have back in the day. Not that I ever want to see anybody get tortured and I don't like to hear about people getting tortured. It's awful. But I just think it's wild that that is part of our history that we can't change and that we've grown from that, thank God, and we're more humane now. But I'll tell you what. Back then it was like the Wild West out there.

Wendy: 20:18

Yeah, it was savage and long. So, soon after taking residence in Fraberg, Chrisman met the young daughter of Poppert on the Rhine River. She was traveling to live with her brother. Once he saw her, he started to bully her and those she loved with death threats to convince her to take residence with him. Once at his complete disposal and under Chrisman's absolute control, he demanded her undying loyalty, insisting that she never betray him. For a grueling seven years, he enslaved her to his sexual and sadistic desires. He was said to have fathered six children with her during that time and rather than having to provide for them and to further her torture, he'd kill them at birth by crushing their necks in front of her. He'd then stretch and hang their bodies and say dance, dear children. Dance, Jinnah Patinga, your father is making the dance for you.

Wendy: 21:13

She was defeated into a subservient shell of a person and eventually submissive enough to gain a simulance of his trust. Within said trust, she relentlessly begged him to allow her to meet other people, under the condition that they renewed their oath of her not betraying him. Chrisman finally gave in to her repeated pleading so that she might be allowed to go into public. However, while there a series of events, including witnessing live children playing, brought her to her knees in a tear-filled, nervous breakdown, Though surrounding her empathized in a worry and asked her to reveal her troubles, but she was too fear-tied to her promises to reveal anything. She was eventually dragged to the mayor, while being further urged to disclose what brought her to tears. There, educated men assured her she was safe, while offering her persuasive biblical passages depicting the imminence of protecting her life and soul. By confessing her honest accounts, she bent on earth for thoughts, feelings and experiences, while revealing everything.

Tiffany: 22:20

Well, I'm glad she ratted on him. That's really fucking sick. To like to kill a child in front of your girlfriend, wife, whatever, because you're trying to control her, like that is. That takes like mental and physical abuse to a whole nother level.

Wendy: 22:36

It was crazy, because he made her his sex slave and then he impregnated her and the only semblance of love could have been the children. But he took that from her too. And he didn't just take that from her. He waited until she gave them life to take that life from them, in front of her, the visual of him. I mean I can't imagine a mother having to visualize something like that.

Tiffany: 23:04

No, that's awful. That's probably like I heard a quote the other day that really fucked me up. The quote was like a grieving mother has one foot on earth and one foot in heaven because they always kind of want to go and die to go be with their child, but at the same time they want to stay and live for their child and that really fucked me up. When I heard that quote Like it brought tears to my eyes because I know so many parents who have lost children, feel empathy for people like her who have lost children because it is like it's like somebody rips a piece of your soul away.

Wendy: 23:41

You know, I was in Florida when my sister Terri passed and I flew up right after she passed away the week of Mother's Day. But I didn't see that because I was in Florida at that time. But when my adopted sister Kathy had cancer and my sister took it upon herself to spend her last hour with our family under my adopted mom's roof, I felt that saying that you just said to my soul. I was standing right next to my sister. I was the closest to her when she took her last breath, which is an honor. But watching my mother, I can't even explain it.

Tiffany: 24:25

I know it's you can't. It's like it takes your breath away, because there is no experience like watching a mother grieve the loss of her child Like there is and I've seen it four times for people I was really close to and I was an adult when they lost their children, so I knew the weight of that. You know what I mean. And then, on top of that, you not experiencing that yourself but seeing it and you can feel how heart-wrenching it is and I couldn't even imagine like stepping through that threshold into their shoes and then feeling that wholeheartedly instead of as a voyeur.

Wendy: 25:01

Right, exactly. I know for sure that, no matter how bad we felt losing a sister, it was a humbling experience to know that it couldn't have been nearly as bad as what our mom was going through at that time. And so, when you think of what this man did now, these were babies that she didn't breastfeed and bring to childhood or adulthood, so she didn't have the chance to cultivate a relationship with these babies, but still she had the nine months with that baby in her actual womb and he did that to them in front of her. We've discussed a lot of really horrible things that these sadistic fox have done, but this has to be the most fucked up depiction I have read of what a man has done to a woman, making her a sex slave for seven years and doing that to her.

Tiffany: 25:58

Yeah, he's an actual piece of fucking shit is what he is To catch Christmas off guard.

Wendy: 26:04

They gave her a sack of peas to take with her upon her return home. She marked the way to his cave complex by laying the seeds to create a path that they could easily follow to his cave. You know how oh, hansel and Gretel. It's funny. I was thinking of Hansel and Gretel, but I was also thinking of childhood, drew Barrymore. He used M&Ms to lure ET.

Tiffany: 26:24

Oh yeah, I know they were Reese's pieces. They weren't M&Ms, no, they were Reese's pieces.

Wendy: 26:31

Holy shit, I could have stopped using that metaphor.

Tiffany: 26:34

I'm pretty sure they're Reese's pieces, wasn't it?

Wendy: 26:37

No shit.

Tiffany: 26:38

I just Googled it.

Wendy: 26:41

So those who don't know the younglings that we have listening in sometimes, ET is a 1980s film. It was a classic for all children who were born in the 80s. Et got me to cry. That brought me to tears.

Tiffany: 27:00

It was a never ending story for me.

Wendy: 27:02

It's Artex.

Tiffany: 27:04

Yeah, I was thinking in the swamp he was like trying to get the friggin' horse out of the mud.

Wendy: 27:09

Yes, the horse Artex. Yeah, you're right, I cried during that scene too. Ah. So anyway, during the 80s there were some real tear jerkers and I'm not easily swooned. But ET and Old Yeller, never ending story and land before time. When he thinks that the shadow is his mother, but he realizes it's just himself. Oh yeah, yeah, I watched that in foster care, so it was especially fucking cruel. Ah, ah, it's true If you live in a foster home. The worst movies are usually any American tale and land before time.

Tiffany: 27:49

Yeah, and you put-. You know, daddy warbucks ain't coming for you. Ha ha, ha ha.

Wendy: 27:55

Anyway, oh man, still to this day. That's why I want an in-ground, underground swimming pool. Really, oh daddy warbucks, swimming pool, hellfucking yes yes.

Wendy: 28:06

So, anyway, it is suggested that a lot of fine goods and horrors were found within his cave. They found meat, wine, trade goods and weaponry. The value was estimated at exceeding 70 golden. All right, I wanna explain what that is. A golden is a former Dutch and German currency unit. The term is still used today in some context to refer to the currency that was used before the Euro became an effect, and I think in the Netherlands the golden was replaced by the Euro in 2002, and in Germany as well West Germany and Germany it was replaced in 2002 and it was 1990 for East Germany. I remember when they started replacing currency with the Euro and having so many mixed thoughts and feelings about that fact.

Wendy: 28:55

But the value of a golden during the 16th century when this all happened could still vary on whichever specific time and place it was. So the golden was used as a currency unit in various countries and its value could be fluctuated based on economic conditions, trade and other factors. So different regions also may have issued different versions of the golden with different varying values. So yeah, it was a really complex system. So there's no telling how much that was actually worth, but I'll tell you what it sounds like. It was worth a lot because he was sitting on top of that mountain and fucking robbing these people blind.

Tiffany: 29:47

Yeah, yeah, well, sounds like it. I still picture him diving in and out of that money there's golden coins.

Wendy: 29:54

No, no, Dr Hamels, Dr Hamels, woo, I can't. All right, so let's talk about the confession and trial. This is gonna be your favorite part. On the 17th of June and 1581, Christman Jenna Pertanga was found guilty and condemned to death by the breaking wheel. Beyond the evidence he'd arrogantly and vulgarly confessed, there was his journal. So these people were not in doubt in regards to whether he did this or not. He had that witness confess everything that happened to her and they found his place. They found the evidence in his place. They found the journal that he kept a collection of the names, people he robbed and what he stole from them. Plus, he admitted it. So there was like just no question.

Tiffany: 30:53

It's like dude, to put it lightly, you're fucked. You are guilty, and not only are you fucked, but if you were born in a different time period, you and Mark Twitchell should have went bowling.

Wendy: 31:06

And that was great. They didn't need DNA evidence in this case.

Tiffany: 31:14

No, man they just followed the trail of peace right to his little cave of bodies and fucking money His diaries. Yeah, he's like. I'm gonna keep all these records of all the crimes that I committed and strung out dead babies. Yeah, what an idiot?

Wendy: 31:33

Oh no, in retort to his provable misdeeds, they kept him alive with strong drinks to slow his heart, as they tortured him on the wheel for nine days.

Tiffany: 31:43

Wait a second. Did you just say that they kept him alive by giving him strong drinks? Yes, like as an alcohol.

Wendy: 31:50

They well, I know what you're thinking they probably numb some of his pain and you? Want to feel all of it.

Tiffany: 31:54

Yeah, yeah. So about the same thing. He gave me a bunch of strong drinks and then put me on a torture wheel. I might think we were doing foreplay.

Wendy: 32:01

Okay, Mark Twitchell, I can't with you. I did think the same thing, though. That's how I knew where you were going with it. But oh shit To those who don't know what the breaking wheel is. It is a torture device and to date, the breaking wheel remains one of history's most gruesome methods of execution, Reserved mainly for those worse criminals and intended to inflict maximum pain and suffering, Often before a large crowd.

Tiffany: 32:34

They like that stuff back then, oh yeah, and that's the one where they pull your limbs right.

Wendy: 32:39

Yeah, so yeah.

Tiffany: 32:40

So you know what they call them. Now, right, what Chiropractors.

Wendy: 32:45

You're so stupid. I need a chiropractor in my life right now.

Tiffany: 32:52

Oh man, I wouldn't go to one. I have a rule.

Wendy: 32:55

I will do yoga, go out of my massage chair, do what I have to do to alleviate my pain until it gets to a point where I can't take it anymore, and I'll go to a masseuse or a chiropractor when that happens. My niece is such a good masseuse that she knows how to align you a little bit and do some reiki while she's massaging you. So since her I have not gone to a chiropractor in a very long time, but I have crawled into those places and walked out a few times.

Tiffany: 33:26

Oh, I know they do help a little bit, but you still got to be very careful because they can go really wrong really quickly in those places.

Wendy: 33:34

Check your yell braiding guys. Yeah, so you were right. The wheel was made to revolve slowly with a large hammer or an iron bar applied to the limb, over the gap between the beams, which was used to break their bones. So I actually looked up some of the after effects of this wheel because I'm like, what do you mean? Break their bones, you know, and I mean they severed the bones.

Tiffany: 34:03

Wow.

Wendy: 34:04

There's no amount of alcohol in this world that's going to take that kind of pain away.

Tiffany: 34:09

No, you're just like ripping limbs off.

Wendy: 34:11

I doubt, it so just you know, it starts stretching the skin and then catching the bone and breaking the bone and then eventually tearing the limbs completely apart. It's crazy.

Tiffany: 34:25

Yeah, and I mean, how slow were you talking?

Wendy: 34:28

Well, they took nine days worth of ripping his limbs off.

Tiffany: 34:33

Damn that's. Yeah, that's a long time. So I would say, um, yeah, that's really torturous.

Wendy: 34:39

Yes, he deserves no less for what he did to those babies and to that woman.

Tiffany: 34:44

Yeah, I mean. I mean like in this day and age I would say, no, that's awful and inhumane. But the fact that what he did was so brutal, like my brain wants to say, ha, you deserve it, you know. But then the other part of me is like it's still inhumane.

Wendy: 34:58

I don't know. I think that I know that there's a place in Karmic hell and that he might incarnate as a worm even after he has been tortured to death, but there's just a level of evil that some people are that I believe deserve justice, and this man received some fucking justice.

Tiffany: 35:22

Yeah, he definitely did he. Just, he definitely received something.

Wendy: 35:27

Yes, he did so. Yeah, that was. That was the case that I spent this week studying and I it was nice to take a vacation out of this century.

Tiffany: 35:38

Yeah, I actually like old timey cases. A lot of people don't, I don't know why, but I like history and I want to bring in some cool old timey cases.

Wendy: 35:47

I know it was something that I've been thinking about a lot lately is we really have tailored our podcast to a certain algorithm to maintain the consistency, and that's because we have a couple of thousand really loyal listeners and so we want to make sure that the continuity is there. But it would be nice to know that if we put a little bit of ancient spice in there, or maybe even a little bit of strange phenomenon type of criminal cases, people would enjoy it as much as they do the other ones we've done. Yeah, I will say and I don't want to be redundant because I said this earlier today but the further back, the more that you should take these things superstitiously because of how many hands they've gotten into on their way.

Tiffany: 36:37

It depends on how deep in time we go.

Wendy: 36:40

Right. One of the main reasons that I thought that this would be okay is that the recount, the three translations that were made, were not like a hundred 200 years later. They were more within that time frame. So that leaves plenty of opportunity for them to add, live and give their versions, and, of course, back in that time too, we have to consider the fact that a lot of hearsay was taken for baiting where it's not anymore.

Tiffany: 37:11

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, because, like back then, they took that as word, as bond. It was fact.

Wendy: 37:16

Exactly, and if that person was a convincing enough actor, it was true.

Tiffany: 37:22

Yeah, so, like a lot of those things are, they're not 100% accurate.

Wendy: 37:26

Right, but I mean, there was this alleged journal and there was a recount not too long after, and so there was enough there where I could actually say this seems pretty viable. At least there's some semblance of truth to it Now. That said, I wanted so desperately to do the 16th century that I went on a scavenger hunt to try to find one that had enough sources to be able to do this, and there weren't that many.

Tiffany: 37:55

No, not really. But you know, I do like the fact that he did get served justice.

Wendy: 38:00

I knew you would, though.

Tiffany: 38:03

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