Rogue and Wicked
True Crime podcast with dark humor, two sexy brunettes, sprinkled with some paranormal stories and some pop culture for your hearing pleasure. We dive deep into true crime cases and give you the details that you don't always see in any one documentary. Follow us at Rogueandwicked on tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter and youtube for pictures and more content on our cases.
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Rogue and Wicked
Vigilante Justice: Unmasking the Dark Reality of Stephen Marshall
Step into the shadowy world of Stephen Marshall - a self-professed vigilante whose warped sense of justice led him down a dark path of violence against those he believed were sexual predators. We're peeling back the layers of this chilling narrative, examining the ethical quagmire of vigilante justice.
As we navigate the troubled waters of Marshall's past — from his volatile school years to his alarming fascination with weapons — and the potentially disastrous outcomes of high-profile individuals entertaining physical altercations. We turn the spotlight on the chilling timeline leading up to Marshall's rampage, unmasking a web of lies, suspicious behavior, and a terrifying encounter with a convicted child rapist.
Finally, we dive deep into the unsettling world of Minor Attracted Persons (MAP) — a shadowy corner of society where sympathy lies with pedophiles. We grapple with the distressing implications of these terminologies, their misguided attempts at aligning with the LGBTQ community, and those who identify as MAPs. As we delve into the contentious issue of public sex offender registries and the privacy rights they potentially infringe upon, we invite you to join our journey of understanding. This is a complex, harrowing story that provokes critical questions about justice, morality, and our overarching societal response to sexual crimes.
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Script's, Editing, Social Media and the Creator of the show: Tiffany
Co-host and author of the book series "sage": Wendy
Music by Bo Todd
Welcome to Rogue and Wicked.
Wendy:I'll tell you what. Last week, we began with a case that was unsolvable and ended talking about wigs. This week, we're going to be discussing something that was completely solved in a quickness, and I wanted to tell you a funny wig story before we start. Okay, so, as you know, I like to make TikToks and sometimes I'll throw on a mask or a wig and play with them for content, for advertising purposes. Quote on, quote. So I tried on a blonde wig and my better half was working on his music, so I put some like groupie clothes on and a blonde wig and went into the office and pretended to be a groupie. So much fun.
Tiffany:Yeah, I have a couple of wigs. I don't wear them regularly, like they're just for fun.
Wendy:Yeah, that's the only time I can do it too. In fact, I have about an hour's worth of wig in me before. My hair is so thick it makes my head itch and feels uncomfortable, and I've yet to ever succeed in false lashes or a wig without losing them or feeling uncomfortable within an hour. Same shit with photo shoots. It never fails.
Tiffany:Yeah, they itch. I don't like how they itch my head.
Wendy:They make my head sweat and itch and all kinds of things and I feel unnatural in them. I can feel it on my head and I don't like that feeling at all.
Tiffany:No, I know I don't like it either.
Wendy:For a quick makeover. There's so much fun and, of course, that wig didn't stay on for longer than five minutes of our performance. So, as of late, we've been covering a lot of murders of the sexual predator kind, as it seems to be a commonality among most murder cases. As such, I wanted to find a case incorporating some heavy contrast by covering a professed vigilante who kills them.
Tiffany:Yeah, that's wild. I just couldn't even imagine somebody who claims to be a vigilante who murders people. I mean, I get the whole vigilante thing like you think you're a do-gooder, but I feel like that's just a reason to, I don't know, live by some fucked up moral code to murder people.
Wendy:Right. This case, as I said, is cut and dry and within its tragedies, I found myself covering knowledge surrounding the situation as much as the situation itself, because it gave me a lot to surmise and that's one of them, by the way, what you just mentioned. The mystery with this one isn't whether or not he committed the crime, but whether or not our listeners will feel it's justified. I want to preface this by kind of agreeing with what you just said. This is my opinion, which is taking murder into our own hands isn't the best option, even though sexual predators are my least favorite sick fox of all.
Tiffany:Oh yeah, I mean me too. I think it's disgusting Anybody who touches children or whatever. I don't want to get it, whatever, but I'm just saying like yeah so do.
Wendy:I believe that they deserve the death penalty or at least life in prison if proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt, absolutely. Oh yeah, I do not trust that anyone who sexually violates a minor can be fixed more than a serial killer. Both sets of psychopaths lack empathy and remorse and commit disgusting crimes just to scratch selfish itches. And I don't think people who lack that type of remorse can be changed. They're deficient.
Tiffany:Yeah, no, I know, I know and it kind of reminds me of like a Dexter Morgan kind of killer, like I don't know if you've ever seen Dexter, but it's a show. Well, we just talked about Dexter because I just did a case on the Dexter killer. But yeah, like he was a vigilante murderer who went around and murdered people for crimes that they committed, usually murder or sexual assault, any kind of violent crimes, and that's what he used as his moral code. He only went by the code, the code of Harry, so that's what he did. And it was pretty fucked up because he was still and as you progress into the show, he was still a murderer, still was a sociopath.
Wendy:Yes, exactly In that case. That's 100% true, unless one is personally involved or sure without a doubt, taking such matters into our own hands could be a terrible mistake. Too Deep in the minds of many vigilante-anties is the notion that justice system doesn't do enough to prevent predators from roaming free. I feel that way too, but can such actions be fundamentally justified by those seeking justice and looking to prevent future devastation? That was the part that I really had to get out of my feels, for which is where this research comes in. I read that approximately 3% of rape allegations are identified as malicious, determined to be intentionally false. Regarding cases with grievous bodily harm, even the broader definition no evidence, delayed report, retraction or intoxication victim accounted for 2% of crimes. Conservative estimates for allegations of child abuse state that at least 2% and as many as 35% of claims made in child custody disputes are proven false. There's a huge window. There isn't there.
Tiffany:Yeah, I would definitely say that.
Wendy:So, moreover, right suppose someone with a healing spirit wants to make positive change. In that case, I think that they could best devote that energy to healing those sexually assaulted, instead of landing behind bars for murder. After all, studies also now indicate that about one-third of people who are abused in childhood will become abusers themselves. Today, we're going to be discussing someone referred to as a vigilante named Stephen Marshall. So what do you guys think? Well, I'm glad that you guys are. Not only does he have two first names, but did you notice that this kid's first name is the same as my first long-term relationship at 16, and the man I am?
Tiffany:with now. Well, I'm glad he's nothing like those guys.
Wendy:But yeah, I thought it was like oh wow, that's the name of my first lover and my present lover. How fucking odd. Yeah, that was weird. So again, I think about those studies pertaining to what I just mentioned, because that helps us ground to statistics and science. Rather than, as I said, before putting ourselves at risk, I think it's important to consider a better way of handling those types of things, bringing attention to them so that those wounds can be healed before those one-third turn into those horrible things themselves.
Tiffany:Yeah, I feel like there's got to be some better way to handle that. I mean, I know that a lot of times those sexual predators, even with therapy that they still commit crimes, but I feel like it would be a better chance at maybe them not offending or trying to stop them. The legal way would be a very productive thing to do by using psychology instead of Right imagine all of the people that are healed early on.
Wendy:I don't know. I just feel like there is a preventive maintenance system that would be more advantageous than trying to fix a crime with another crime.
Tiffany:Yeah, I agree.
Wendy:So let's get into him a little bit Now. First of all, he didn't live very long. He was young when he passed away, and I'll get into how that happens. It wasn't a pass away, it was when he died. But he was an American Canadian, born in Fort Worth, Texas, on August 1985. He moved with his family to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, when he was just a few years old, His parents divorced in 1996. While his father returned to the United States, he remained in Canada with his mother and sister. Following the divorce, Steve at that time was described as puny and he was severely bullied at school. His mother withdrew him from Malcolm Monroe Middle School during the last several weeks of his school year due to the ongoing harassment there. Uh-oh, first serial killer red flag, I'm just kidding. A few years hence, in 1999, Steve moved back to the United States to live with his father in Calde Sackle, Idaho. Tiffany has recently taught me that there is. Tiffany, you want to say what you recently taught me about the word Calde Sackle?
Tiffany:Yeah, we were talking about guys and I was like, oh yeah, I knew a guy that had a Calde Sack haircut and it wasn't like a haircut, it was like when they're short on the sides and they're like bald up top. And I was like, yeah, they call that a Calde Sack. And when he's like what, I was like, yeah, like one of those like Calde Sacks you drive into, it's like a circle with all the houses was around in it.
Wendy:You know, I got the visuals right away. I understood the connotations. I was just blown away by the fact I never fucking heard that before.
Tiffany:Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it's a Jersey thing or if it's like an all over thing, but I just she's like the queen of terms, like there's a Tiffany modern dictionary that, like, we must procure anyway.
Wendy:So Stephen attended grades 9, 10, and 11 at Calde Sackle High School and had better luck befriending schoolmates there. He and his newfound peers created a group called Slackers Coalition in Arms, with the alleged intention and of course you know I use the word alleged when I think it's bullshit intention of protecting themselves from tyrannical education system. I can appreciate those sentiments, I can, but I still don't buy him. I don't believe him. Quite the anarchist, though right.
Tiffany:Yeah, definitely. Like he's like pushing against the authority.
Wendy:We got a coalition yeah, big Brother is watching, yeah somebody's watching us.
Wendy:Oh, you guys have to check out 1984. If you haven't, it's the most I'm gonna make you paranoid. Book out there One of them. So anyway, by the time he was 14, this dude even started his own website complete with weapon pictures. I know you probably remember this. I didn't have a website like that until 23 and I never even thought to add pictures or weapons, but I did have a political website and so I understand what it's like to have rebellious intentions, especially regarding the academic system and shit like that. So while I can appreciate the sentiments as someone who's been perpetually defined against a system, particularly at most government facilities, I'm deterred by most extremist approaches Like anarchists are admirable but travel too far from the gray areas regarding such a multifaceted subject.
Tiffany:Yeah, definitely.
Wendy:You'll find that the best intended extremists have that in common. This is thatist aspect that Tiffany and I have spoken off the books about, which is about cultists, toxic pacifists not to be mistaken for peaceful strategists racist, sexist, ages misogynist, fascist and masochists, many of which fall under similar umbrellas. For instance, he was also a racist who believed that minorities shouldn't have received what he believed to be, in his own words, special treatment. That pisses me off so bad.
Tiffany:Well, I kind of got that picture when you said he had a political website and there was a bunch of weapons all over it.
Wendy:Right, yeah, suddenly that Confederate flag flew above mine and Tiff's head.
Tiffany:Yeah, but is he from Canada? Yeah, Well, technically he's from Texas, right? Originally I mean he bounced around.
Wendy:Yeah, like he was in Canada, Maine. He was all over the place, so he also became a misogynist, while propagating topics such as Tiffany you're going to love this one Men who don't keep their women in line I can see that too.
Tiffany:It kind of falls under the same spectrum of his political views. It's the ists, I tell you yeah.
Wendy:You know that also makes me think of the conversation last week regarding the ophthalias that our podcast often mentions, like pedophilia and necrophilia.
Tiffany:Hybristophilia and all the other filias. Yeah, there are so many Billion filias.
Wendy:Yeah, so many extremists and wildly fucked up ophthalias.
Tiffany:You ain't kidding.
Wendy:So let's get into him at school, because it seems to play a prominent role in his defiance tendencies, as well as the fact he was heavily bullied there. So teachers described him as emotional, temperamental and defiant, but seemingly harmless, aren't they all, terry Crawford Right? How many times have we heard this?
Tiffany:Oh yeah, he's harmless, he's not going to hurt you, but he's just a little wild, you know.
Wendy:Terry Crawford, who taught Steven agriculture at Calde Sack High School, recalled him as a somewhat rebellious kid who was intelligent but he wanted to do what he wanted to do. He was pretty quiet around me, crawford said. At that point he sounds like the kind of dude you and I would chill with. Let's be real, minus the racist and the fucking misogynist and the extremist shit and only honing into that aspect of it, to be clear.
Tiffany:I don't know, but if he started opening his mouth and talking, I probably wouldn't want to hang out with him anymore.
Wendy:Hey, I said to preclude that part. I know, but it's hard to All right. Yeah, I know. Once you know, you know there's no turning back. No, so Marshall was charged with aggravated assault when he was only 15, in April of 2001, after he brought a Coltsport 223 caliber assault rifle onto his lawn where two people were fighting, two youths in fact. He was trying to prevent the situation from escalating further, and so I kind of it's a little bit rash, but at least it didn't seem too like crazy. The police recalled when Stephen was arrested and received six months probation for that, and Mr Crawford once again said that it was no surprise that Stephen would have such access to high-profile rifles at such a young age, because they were from rural place in Idaho At that time. Basically, kids get hunting licenses as young as 12 and learn how to handle guns responsibly.
Tiffany:Yeah, I don't know. I mean I get it that they're doing it responsible, but then you got kids like him out on the front lawn with the friggin gun pointed at two strangers.
Wendy:Break it up.
Tiffany:Yeah, they're fighting with each other. He's like I'm threatening to kill you right now, so you better stop. And it's like, damn, you could have just called the cops boy, or you could have just let them fight. Yeah, let them kick a fair one, unless they're killing each other.
Wendy:I think that draws and fistfights without providing their new weapons should be legal. I really do. Let people fight it out and see if they still want to talk and do evil shit.
Tiffany:Well, it depends. I mean, if they're not doing it to me and they're doing it to each other, it's like I don't really care.
Wendy:That's what I mean Like, have it where you sign a waiver so you know there's no fuckery, and get into that ring or get those guns and do a fucking draw. If two people legally consent to those things, I think it should be legal.
Tiffany:And then supervised.
Wendy:Supervised.
Tiffany:I mean, I have a different opinion here, but that's all right. I mean we're all titled to our things, you know.
Wendy:Well, you know, you did hear about Mark and Elon Musk potentially fighting with each other, right?
Tiffany:Yeah, I thought it was hilarious. I found a Napoleon Dynamite TikTok that I think I sent you of them two like fighting in that one scene or just like chatting with chicks online all day I'm a cage fighter and he like gets into a fight with them and they're like slapping each other. That's what I picture the two of them doing.
Wendy:Yes, I know, but that's when I think about, like the idea of it being legal to fight. Look at those fuckers talking about it.
Tiffany:That would I want to get a ticket to that cage match. I really do.
Wendy:I hate myself for agreeing with you. I do I just because it makes me question humanity. At the same time, I'm like are you serious right now? Who of our like most accomplished and smart men are talking about acting like apes in a cage?
Tiffany:I guess that's a male bonding ritual, I don't know.
Wendy:It's so stupid. I can feel them like pounding their gorilla chests and I'm like, come on.
Tiffany:They're pounding their little bird chests like.
Wendy:You guys are too rich to do this. I'm sorry, go get on, okay, anyway, I just, I just can't. So I have nothing bad to say about either of them, it's just, it's such a trippy thing for me to imagine.
Tiffany:Oh, I know, I really want to say it. I hope they record it. I really do.
Wendy:And then aliens are watching us from out of space Like, wow, those are two of the most accomplished humans. Look at them.
Tiffany:They probably think that we're like Neanderthals, like seriously, oh we are we fucking are Look at these little apes running around fighting each other. Look at them.
Wendy:Right, steph, I think that we're Neanderthals. God only knows what they think, right. So he was also ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation, attend a hunter safety course and write an apology letter and a five page paper on teen violence. So at least they assessed him. At least they didn't let that little red flag go.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean glad they punished him Like he should be punished for that.
Wendy:Right. It was good that he attended the hunter safety course. It's great that he was evaluated, and writing an apology level letter invokes empathy and a five page paper on teen violence, which I've heard that when you read something or write something, you archive it in your mind better. It's a good strategy. I can see where they were going there and I can actually appreciate them doing that.
Tiffany:Oh yeah.
Wendy:Because there haven't been a lot of cases where those types of things happened. Yeah, a lot of shit was just let go Like, oh, he killed Kat, okay, that's less than what a lot of these fuckers are going through unchecked for. Anyway, his psychological report concluded that there were no significant pathologies present in you know the way, that his mind wouldn't have an impact on Marshall's ability to comply with the conditions of his informal adjustment or, you know, contribute to the likelihood of him committing future crimes. There's no record of conviction, because he was a juvenile at the time too and it was kind of a hush hush, said Tony Greer, an administrative assistant with the department. His father was actually mayor too. So when the mayor's child's misbehaving, it is going to be a hush hush thing.
Tiffany:Yeah, definitely, because they're going to sweep that under the rug.
Wendy:Right. So things began to move swiftly, as time seemed to do in our late teens. I know that yours and mine just fucking flew by, and especially with him because he was bouncing around a lot. In the summer fall of 2002, steve and Marshall moved to Phoenix, arizona, to live with his half-sister and her family there. Stephen attended his senior year at Desert Vista High School in Arizona During the spring summer of 2003,.
Wendy:Stephen visited his mother for the first time since leaving Nova Scotia four years earlier. Stephen also visited his father, who lived with his first wife in Colorado. May to June of 2003, stephen's old high school friend, chance, had sex with an underage girl at a friend's house in Fort Collins, colorado, where he was at that time, and he was charged with sexual assault on a child. He later pleaded guilty to intimidating a witness and a third-degree assault. It's not known whether or not Stephen met by chance when they were both in Colorado, but let's just move on. So in September of 2003, stephen, who was 18, then moved back to Nova Scotia, canada, to live with his mother and attended a computer course at Memorial High School in North Sydney. That's a lot of moving.
Wendy:Yeah, they did move around a lot, which probably didn't help his mental stability Right and not only that, but it would have been because he was bouncing around so much, it would have been harder to track how fucked up he actually was. Well, yeah, you get. You know, sometimes it takes years to figure out somebody's idiosyncrasies and patterns, and he wasn't staying any way long enough for anyone to quite figure out how fucked up he was. At least, that's how I feel in assessing another human being.
Tiffany:Yeah, when you move around like that, like when you get to know a psychologist or somebody who evaluates you that has a psychology degree, you usually have to see them quite a few times. I would think yeah. And if it was going that unnoticed. But he was also doing these things on his downtime too, so it's like who would have seen?
Wendy:it, you know Exactly. He did most of the stuff like on computers and he wasn't leaving like any solid bread trails. And despite the fact that he was adverse and mistrusting of authority, stephen became excited about the prospect of joining the Canadian military. Unfortunately, he wasn't accepted because of his asthma. He then began to spiral into desperation. At this point I wonder if the military was more of a way to harness what seemed to be the anger that he had and offer structure because he'd been moving around so much. But that's up for speculation. Yeah, you know, he seemingly moved like a gypsy until that point and seemingly grabbed at what he could to maintain a semblance of control, which I think is where his fascination with those site derived from. Probably For a few years he battled ongoing depression and began working as a dishwasher.
Wendy:While he found friends to room with, his depression continued to waver. As a result, his mother took him to a church to help breathe faith into the darkness he found himself in. I felt a sudden connotation with the 70s Michael Taylor case we first did when we began this podcast journey together when that part was mentioned, especially when you take the depression and church cultists remedy overtones into account. This is precisely when I was like oh shit here we go again.
Tiffany:Yeah, but it's like his mom saw something in him to try to take him to have him fixed by the church.
Wendy:Yes, mm, hmm.
Tiffany:Which she should have maybe just called a psychologist or psychiatrist and not rely on the church and hindsight.
Wendy:Yeah, some people though, they're gullibly superstitious in that way, and so if her intentions were in the right place and she is that way, I can understand it. You and I think more scientific when it comes to those things, and so you and I would be like, okay, yeah, this one needs to be psychoanalyzed and understood versus I just want to put something positive and faith into him.
Tiffany:Yeah, but I don't think God is going to cure your mental illness.
Wendy:You know what I mean there in lines of science I was through maybe spiritual illness, it will help with inspiration, but you have to be able to diagnose a problem properly, I think, in order to fix it. And that's what psychologists do. They like brain mechanics.
Tiffany:I mean, I get that like there's community and people want community in order to help, you know, and it does help in some ways, but like, if you're mentally ill and your mom thinks you're mentally ill enough that you need faith in your life, then you need maybe more than the church.
Wendy:Right. Anyway, I agree with you for sure. In April of 2006, stephen started acting peculiar. I think he was already acting peculiar, but like this is when they started to really notice it. He withdrew 500 from his Canadian bank account, his 2,657 from his United States account. On the morning of April 12th 2006, he said goodbye to his housemates and he told them, who was Courtney and Devin, that he was going to Cape Breton for a few days. Instead, he heads for Maine to visit his father living in that state. He never called in to work, in spite of the fact they had him on the schedule either. He went to Staples and was said to have purchased a laptop and a GPS software. However, his car broke down at the border, so he pulled into the coastal inn in New Brunswick for the night, and then he called his housemate and dishonestly told him that he was visiting his grandparents, and instead Stephen's father retrieved his son and they both returned to his father's residence in Maine. I'm like why the fuck lie about that, though?
Tiffany:Yeah, unless he had something planned out or whatever you know.
Wendy:Like I mean, he definitely did have shit planned out, but what's the point in saying you're going to be at your grandmother's when you know you're calling your father to pick you up and go there. Like what is the point? And I'm not calling out to work? That's always a suspicious thing too, especially as we were mentioning in the last podcast Patterns. In fact, I do believe that most jobs have a protocol where, like X amount of no calls, no shows, you just lose your fucking jobs and most people don't.
Tiffany:Yeah, you could tell his mental state was getting a little erratic at that point.
Wendy:Exactly so. In the early morning of April 16th, stephen stole his father's pickup truck and left for Hilton with three guns and his laptop computer. The guns were a Ruger handgun Colt 45 semi-automatic and a 223 Colt Sporter semi-automatic rifle. That was like the first gun that I ever shot at a shooting range was a 45 Ruger and that recoil smoked my ass. I was like trying to aim for the target and I shot the dirt in front of me and pissed off the other shooters. And then I shot above the target and I was like boom, my gunner sergeant friend handed me a 40 Glock and I shot that like with precision right after that 45 fucking Ruger.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean I had a 357 Magnum that I learned on and I couldn't even shoot the Magnums. I had to use the 38s because the Magnums were too powerful. Talk about a recoil. And I shot a 45 and that wasn't that bad in comparison to the recoil and the 357. One day we're gonna have to go shooting.
Wendy:Yeah, I was just thinking that one, because I'm shooting together.
Tiffany:Yeah.
Wendy:I haven't been since I lived in Florida. I didn't know that that was like a thing up here at all, but it was funny because I grew up in the ghetto.
Wendy:So when I was at the shooting range the gunner sergeant was laughing at me. That was my friend, chris. He's like fucking you, duck. I was like every time somebody else shot around me I flinched. You know, like I was like, oh shit, tuck and roll. I didn't hear shit, anyway. So at roughly 2am he appeared at the home of Joseph Gray, a 57 year old who was convicted of raping a child under 14, and Milo Maine. Making his way past four other known registered Maine pedophiles, by the way, ones that he knew were there. He broke into the house and he shot and killed Gray while sleeping in his living room. His wife woke up to their dogs barking. Gray had fallen asleep while watching Forensics Files. Oh no shit, how often gone.
Tiffany:Well, I fall asleep to watch it Forensic Files pretty much every night. So if I ever got murdered, I'd probably also have Forensic Files, don't?
Wendy:let that happen. No, I mean a lot of people watch True Crime at night.
Tiffany:It's weird, but they do it. I don't know why. I guess it's the guy's voice that's very calming, even though he's talking about really awful stuff I watched a TikTok regarding that way.
Wendy:the lady was like yeah, we watch these things to feel safe, like we're learning ways to avoid these things. So he then spent a few hours driving about. There wasn't a lot of information about Joseph Al Gray, 57 of Milo Mane, besides being a proven victimizer who'd fallen victim, but I was Kind of at odds when I learned that Joseph was a husband to Janice Gray when he died unexpectedly on April 16th 2006. Because Gray's name was posted on a state website because he moved to Maine after a Massachusetts conviction for sexual assault on a child under 14. While the murder wasn't the best option based on the charges that sent him to prison, I believe he shouldn't have been set free at all and, as a woman, I find it very hard to believe that another woman would allow herself to be intimate with somebody who defiled a child.
Tiffany:Yeah, that's. I mean I could never date somebody who was a convicted felon for raping a child, because what if you got pregnant?
Wendy:You know, I mean it's just like how could you, you know, be with somebody who did something like that? How can you? I understand that he did his time and he paid for his crime. I first of all don't think he paid for it long enough. I think he should have been kept in prison for that, Not let out that 14 year old's entire life has changed for the rest of her life because of that. Having happened to her, yeah, but to answer your question.
Tiffany:Hybristophilia would make somebody do that If anybody didn't listen to one of our other podcasts where I explained what that was. Hybristophilia is when a woman will latch on to a violent predator who has committed an atrocity like a crime of violent nature or sexually violent nature, and then they it's like an ultimate alpha male thing to these women. Hence why people end up marrying serial killers in prison.
Wendy:There goes another one of those felies.
Tiffany:Yeah, that's the. That was like one of the top ones that I always remembered, because I always wondered what drove people to do that and I didn't know it was an aphelia, until we did that one case.
Wendy:Well, I'm not victim blaming either. I just, again, I can't wrap my mind around that. I understand what you said and the type of person that does it, but I just think it's sick for that person to do it. For that reason, I mean, as a woman, I just find it hard to believe that another woman would want to allow herself to be intimate with someone who defiled a child. In fact, I want to mention this because I learned about it and this case brought this information to the front of my mind, so I went online to fine-tune some of this information. I've recently learned that there's an actual name for pedophiles, like sympathizers actually created a name for them and perhaps I'm T1 forgiving in this particular department, because I just can't rationalize with how sick someone has to be to take advantage of a child, especially for one of humankind's most primitive urges. Map, M-A-P is an online initialism minor attracted persons, basically fucking pedophiles.
Tiffany:Yeah, they're trying to downplay that shit.
Wendy:Yeah, it's about adults who are sexually attracted and aroused by minor children. This is their self-identifier, I mean tiffed. They even have a fucking flag.
Tiffany:Oh, I know they're trying to become part of the LGBTQ community and they don't want. Not in a fucking deal with them.
Wendy:Right, oh, nothing, and not the good ones, that's for short.
Wendy:And the good ones make up the majority, not the minority.
Wendy:Anyway, I read on PMC, which is Pub Med Central, that the current body of literature studying minor attracted persons MAPs predominantly focuses on the experiences of men who experience sexual attraction to children and to shed more light on women's experiences within this population, and it was conducted anonymously in a semi-structured interview with six self-identified female MAPs who were recruited through online support forums for individuals with sexual attractions to children.
Wendy:Interpretive phenomenological analysis IPA was used to analyze the interview transcripts. Subordinate themes were identified from the dataset that highlighted the uniqueness of the experience of being a woman within the MAP community, a minority within a minority, and themes of social isolation and the effects on this identity a lonely, secret existence, they called it. Findings reported highlight how the experience is a female MAPs both coverage and diverge from their male counterparts in important ways. They discuss the implications of those experiences in relation to more effective service provisions for women who are sexually attracted to children. This is a truly sick world that we live in. Not because they're doing the science and the research, but because they're trying to create an acceptance for it by the way that they're going about it.
Tiffany:Well, yeah, because they want to be part of the community. But I'm telling you right now, like anybody who's attracted to a fucking child is not having consensual sex. That's not a sexuality.
Wendy:Right.
Tiffany:I don't care what they fucking say or how they hurt their fucking feelings are, because if you want to fuck a child, you're a piece of shit and you need to seek help, Right because it's not about sex.
Wendy:Sex is just like a means to procreate and to get off or to intimately bond with somebody that you love and somebody who is a consensual adult doing that with another consensual adult. You know whether it doesn't even have anything to do with race or sexual preference at that point, because it's two consensual adults. But when it comes to being turned on by something innocent, then you have the mentality of defiling and destroying. You are unwittingly admitting to that just by the type of mind that would do that in the first fucking place.
Tiffany:Period. It's more like sexual predator, not minor, attractive persons.
Wendy:A fucking man. Anyway, thank you for that. Yes, at 8.15 am, marshall shot William Elliott. Roughly six hours later at his home in Corneth, maine. Elliott's girlfriend witnessed the shooting, wrote down the license plate of the pickup truck and phoned the police. Now, at first I was like really this one had a girlfriend and the last one had a wife Like what the fuck? And that's horrible that that happened. But then I ended up with mixed feelings about this, because he was a 24-year-old who made a shitty decisions when he was only 19. And the mother of William Elliott of Corneth told the Boston Globe that his name was on the registry because of his 2002 conviction for having sex with his girlfriend when he was 19 and she was two weeks shy of her 16th birthday, while she was both younger and a lesser year of development. They were both teenagers and they were merely three years apart.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean that's a tough one, because part of me is like that's not that long between you know, say, 16 and 19 is only three years. But at the same time our developmental mental state at that point is way different. Like a 19-year-old man is like a man, Like he's, like a full grown ass, like mentally different man.
Wendy:Right. It's kind of like when you're 19, you're at the age of becoming an adult and you're at the first phase of that existence. You are an adult but you don't have any experience as an adult. And there are some vultures out there who love those barely legal people because they can manipulate the fuck out of them.
Tiffany:Exactly, and that's the point I'm trying to get at, is that like a 16 year old girl is like a child mentally. You know, they just got out of playing with dolls, they just got an over having their first period at like 12, sometimes 11 or 10, depending on their hormone levels that was like 15.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean, but yeah, it's all different ages, but like they're just coming into their own and usually, like by that time, like in the 80s when I was growing up, everybody had sex at like 16, you know, that was like the age you know, and she's like 15, not even 16, she's dating a 19 year old and obviously they're having sex because she's right, but there are some you know I'm playing devil's advocates here there are some boys at 19 who have not become men at all.
Wendy:They have not grown out of their boy phase like they should. And if they see somebody who's like a few years younger than them but on the same maturity level, that can happen with a three year difference. That can happen. It doesn't mean it's right, but that can happen with a three year difference. In there and lies the difference between a five year difference. That's off the table. Like that's off, that's off the table. I am nowhere mentally or developmentally at any phase of my life until now. Like not look at five years ago. As whoa, you've changed a lot during those last five years every time.
Tiffany:I remember when I was 16 and I first went in the high school and how like small I was and still not fully developed yet, and then I remember what I was like at 19, and I was two completely different people. So I think it's a little sick.
Wendy:I mean, I'm not saying it's as sick as like a 32 year old and like a 16 year old right, or a 17 year old and a 32 year old, or even a 21 year old and a 16 year old Like I think that once it gets past the five year mark, then you have, like, either emotional and mental deficiencies to go further back, and that's why you do it, or you're looking to control somebody because you don't have those deficiencies, but you just feel inept if you don't have some semblance of control. Yeah, that's specifically how I feel about it. I, at 16, was an emancipated adult and I was definitely dating somebody too old for me. He was 22.
Tiffany:That's true, that's oh yes, way too old.
Wendy:Mm-hmm, and that was too much. And I look back in hindsight like I couldn't, at 22, even imagine doing something like that. No, because I look at them like little kids, you know yes yes, but I, like you know, I had a job, I had a car and, in my version of myself at that time, I was very mature, I was on my own paying my bills and complete. Now in hindsight is a whole different fucking ballpark. Now I'm like, oh man, I wasn't as old as I thought.
Tiffany:I was no, not at all.
Wendy:But when I was a kid I thought I was a fucking adult.
Tiffany:I really did. We all do. We think we're invincible on the fucking room as hell.
Wendy:Yeah, and some, you know 19 year olds are just the same as that 16 year old. But again, you know you do have an advantage and you shouldn't do it, but it's not as heinous of a crime as raping a 14 year old in this particular case. Yeah, stephen then abandoned. So let's get back to what Stephen was doing. After he killed this 24 year old kid, he then abandoned his pickup truck near a bus station in Bangor, maine, dropped his ammunition in the toilet tank of the station bathroom and boarded a bus to Boston. However, when the police found the ammunition and confirmed the bus ticket, massachusetts Bay stopped the bus at 8 pm.
Wendy:Stephen Marshall then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with a 45 just outside the terminal. When he noted the police surrounding the bus, while the scene must have been horrifying and some of the passengers were covered and his blood, none were physically harmed. While researching the direction of the bullet to no avail, I don't. They didn't get into specifics like where he shot himself. So I wanted to fill that void in with what I learned about, and that is that there are two terms for gunshot blood splatter in reference to the bullet's direction.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean ballistics will tell you all kinds of different stuff, especially blood spatter analysts.
Wendy:Yeah, so there are two types of patterns one considering gunshots through the body, back splatter and forward spatter. The back spatter examines blood traveling in the opposite direction of the bullet and forward spatter focuses on the blood traveling in the same direction as the bullet. So anyway, I thought that was kind of fascinating. Back to him when he shot himself, marshall had a laptop computer and two handguns, which investigators later examined. In Maine At 11.24 pm, marshall was pronounced dead at Boston Medical Center due to a mass of head wound. The computer they found on his body after his suicide was investigated by authorities and they found a picture of Jesus holding an assault rifle while knocking on someone's door.
Tiffany:Huh, that's a weird thing. And why was Jesus holding an assault rifle?
Wendy:The oxymoron. Yeah, like this was gonna be about peace. Yo, you know, somebody's tapped when they follow Jesus and they're not peaceful and they're judgmental.
Tiffany:Nice historically incorrect, because Jesus would not be holding an assault rifle. They weren't even made back then.
Wendy:Well, I mean, yeah, of course it's historically incorrect, but I think that the sentiment behind it is the most offensive part. Yeah, I know, like Jesus, with any weapon, even if it was a fucking sword which would have been more time appropriate, it's like why, I don't know man, he turned the other cheek you stupid.
Tiffany:fuck yeah, he didn't pull out an assault rifle. This isn't like Arnold Schwarze of Jesus you know I mean it's not like one of those freaking shows like these movies, like you know, the Son of God yeah, the Son of God comes out with a vengeance for the sinful guns of blazing. He takes out all the sinners in a blaze of glory.
Wendy:Oh shit, Do that again I don't think I can.
Tiffany:My voice hurts now.
Wendy:A global positioning device on the computer enabled investigators to reconstruct Marshall's movements from when he stole a truck until he abandoned it, but there was nothing on his computer to suggest why he's erred in on Elliot Gray instead of the other offenders. He passed, and the GPS indicated that he went to the homes of two other sexual offenders, but he didn't harm either of them. There's been a lot of speculation that Marshall was once a victim of a pedophile. If he was, though, he didn't tell anyone interviewed by the police and the documents on his computer no mention of it. They said we were looking for something that would establish his state of mind and why he would be like this.
Wendy:Meanwhile, marshall's father, ralph Marshall, told reporters that his son didn't appear troubled and he never said that he'd been sexually abused. He was confident investigators would get to the bottom of the case, but there still has come to be no reason why he felt that way. You know we mentioned earlier what happened. You know he had a friend who was accused and got arrested for it. Remember how he knew somebody like years back in that situation.
Tiffany:Yeah.
Wendy:But it didn't say anything about it ever having happened to him personally, which probably gave that type of hate.
Wendy:Yeah, I mean, unless he wasn't a lot of stuff, but like nobody knows, One of the things that they were also scrutinizing was pertaining to the laws, so I'll let you know what they are in 2023. At present, in Canada, the sex offender registry is not public and can only be accessed by Canadian police agencies. Some international police agencies may receive information from the database if it means a specific criteria. Meanwhile, in the United States, registries contain information about persons convicted of sexual offenses for law enforcement and public notification purposes. All 50 states and the District of Columbia maintain sex offender registries open to the public via websites, and most information on the offenders is visible to the public. So my two questions for you that I would like to conclude this with and I'm really wondering what the audience will think in this regard too is do you feel like having a sex offender list is a violation of their privacy, and what are your thoughts on those who take these types of crimes into their own hands? First, off.
Tiffany:I think that it's good that they have their sexual crimes public because I can pinpoint them on a fucking map and see if I want to live next door to somebody like that, especially if I have small children or children frequenting my home.
Tiffany:I don't want to live next door to a pedophile or whatever. And in the United States they actually list the crimes for people that don't live here, so like it'll be like level one, level two, level three, whatever, so, like you, they actually assess if they're like going to be a repeat offender. They list the charges. So if it was like statutory rape, it says it. If it says like somebody under the age of 16, it says it. You know, if it says like a child, like an actual child between ages, like three to five or something, it says it. You can gauge if you want to live next door to somebody like that. And if you're dating somebody, the sex registry is one of the first places I look to see if I'm dating somebody who's a sexual predator, because that mug shots are my go-tos, you know when I'm talking to somebody now.
Wendy:I agree with you. I think that it is more of an anomaly for a predator to be hunted down and killed versus us being able to protect ourselves and our children and those we love around us from predators. I think it's more useful, and definitely has more of a preventive maintenance thing, than the small sliver probability of what happened in this case transpiring, you know.
Tiffany:Exactly and like as far as like he goes like passing away at the hands of some vigilante. I don't think that anybody should be murdered at the hands of somebody else, especially like, even if they're a vigilante, because this guy was obviously mentally unstable and you'd have to be to like murder people that you don't know. I think that no one should take crimes into their own hands, like murder, you know, or bodily harm against other people. You should let the justice system work their magic, although a lot of times they don't work a lot of magic, but I think Karma will do that too for you. So I don't know. That's a tough one. That's a very tough question.
Wendy:That was one of the questions that were brought up during this case quite frequently, because they looked at this as a situation like should we assess? Like if they should be on the table or not, and I, you know I already shared my opinion and, girl, I completely agree with yours too.
Tiffany:Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody should be getting killed for anybody's beliefs or whatever moral code they live by, but at the same time, I feel like it's an excuse to like to murder. Yeah, and I do have something on the lighter spectrum to say Before we end this. You pronounced Bangor wrong. It's Bangor Bangor.
Wendy:Oh shit, I thought that was an a a run moment for a minute. I'm like oh wow, I'll just one this time.
Tiffany:No, but I know my maniac family would love that that's what they call each other up there, maniacs. I can't do that.
Wendy:Maniacs, maniacs, maniacs, maniacs, wicked, maniacs up there, wicked maniacs. I work harder to not have a Massachusetts accent than like when I do. Yeah, you know, but I can fake it real good.
Tiffany:Oh yeah, I mean the people. For me, though, it's like, it's like embedded into them, like I've never met anyone. For me that didn't have like a similar to a Boston accent, but like a little more pronounced and more calm.
Wendy:They're more calm than we are.
Tiffany:Yeah, they accentuate the A's longer.
Wendy:Yes, because they speak slower. Yeah, up here, everyone's wound up on Duncan, duncan and a fucking method for me. I'm just kidding, all right, girl. Well, this was a fun night. You guys don't know this, but we pulled a double tonight, so we're doing great right now. We pulled a two-par.
Tiffany:Thanks, Wendy, for that. That was a very thought-provoking case.
Wendy:Thank you. It was very much inspired by one you know the last two cases that you did because I figured we could use some contrast in that regard and zoom out a little further for once.
Tiffany:Yeah, it's a weird one, because it's like you don't like either the victim or the killer.
Wendy:Exactly and the questions that it provokes are different. Like the last one, it was like well who killed her, and then this one will like well, we definitely know who did it, but why?
Tiffany:Oh my God, that's wild yeah.
Wendy:So that was a great way to pull a double.
Tiffany:Yeah, yeah it definitely is. But so I want to thank you and I want to say to our listeners if you guys want to check out our TikTok, instagram, facebook, twitter or any other social platform like YouTube, you can find us at Rogue and Wicked podcast. If you want to check out our Patreon, it's wwwpatreoncom. Slash rogue and wicked. Our tier one listeners get pictures, polls and exclusive content. Our tier two listeners get a bonus episode every month and our tier three listeners get two bonus episodes every month.
Tiffany:Also, if you guys want to email us with anything that you're thinking about or if you want to do a case suggestion or you have a cool story, you can email us at rogue and wicked at yahoocom. I would also like you to check out Wendy's book Sage. It's badass and it's still for sale on roguepoetnet. And if you'd like to leave us a five star review, we greatly appreciate it, because every time you give us a five star review, it puts us on the algorithm and as long as we're on the algorithm, we can keep bringing shit to you guys. So give us a five star review and I want to say thank you for listening and until next time.
Wendy:They are a product of the times, that these are bloodthirsty times.
