The Manson Family Part II

Dare to descend into the twisted world of Charles Manson, as we peel back the layers of his haunting influence on the Beach Boys and the horrifying truth behind his exploitation of Dennis Wilson's wealth. This episode sways from the beaten path, revealing sordid stories of debauchery taking place under Manson's directive – an eyebrow-raising insight into the goings-on at Wilson's property.

Unmask the fear and terror that riddled Dennis Wilson's confessions about Manson, and explore a narrative that contradicts official records in a chilling twist. Shift your focus to the enchanting Sharon Tate, tracing her roots from the quaint Italian city of Verona to the star-studded streets of Los Angeles. 

Venture deeper into the underbelly of Manson's cult, examining the lives of Charles Watson and Linda Kasabian, their loyalty to Manson, and their obedience to his violent whims. Delve into Manson's relationship with the gypsy joker's biker gang, his involvement in a death cult, and his conviction of a looming racial war. Join us on this unnerving journey.

Chapters

• 0:00 Manson's Influence on the Beach Boys
• 14:43 Wilson's Confession and Tate's Rise
• 21:02 Movies and the Manson Family Discussion
• 33:19 The Manson Family and Helter Skelter

Transcript

tiffany: 0:15

Bitch. My back is broken. I broke my back. I didn't break my back.

wendy: 0:23

I'm so sorry. I know it's been a day

tiffany: 0:26

I had an inflammation flare up today so I was walking around with a body brace on and I was walking around like Frankenstein, which was not fun.

wendy: 0:36

Does a back brace prohibit you from moving around efficiently while you're at work? By chance?

tiffany: 0:42

Yeah, yeah, actually it does, but I sit most of the day, so it's not that big a deal.

wendy: 0:47

I might have to implement using a back brace myself while moving people around, which I've discussed with you this week too. But how is it feeling now? Are you feeling any better? No, don't you love when you ask those questions? Hey, how are you doing? Fucking terrible.

tiffany: 1:05

I know. And then everybody's like, oh, just say you're fine, just say you're fine and it's like no bitch, I'm not fine today. Okay, I'm allowed to not be fucking fine, alright so take your sunshine and rainbows and shove it right up, your fucking ass.

wendy: 1:20

Real, for real. Toxic positivity is such a fucking.

tiffany: 1:26

So last episode we talked about Manson's childhood and the abuse that he suffered in school and his deadbeat mama.

wendy: 1:34

I remember every word. You did an excellent job and I cannot wait to get back into this with you.

tiffany: 1:40

Yeah, man, this story is crazy. So we transitioned into his criminal career, starting at age 12 and his progression through the system, which molded him into a real-life pimp and a budding cult leader. We talked about the family extensively and left off with their travels and how they ended up on Spawn Ranch. Now this is part two of the family, in case you missed last week's episode. So if you're on this week's episode, you better catch up on last week's episode, because if you don't, you ain't gonna know what the heck is going on. So I played a clip in the beginning of the episode last week of the girls singing songs of love. And this episode we're gonna dive into Charlie's dream to become a famous songwriter, just like the Beatles, only not, yeah, the not Beatles. Charlie's music was described as Dylan-esque and Neil Young even thought that Charles Manson was an extremely talented songwriter. And it's coming from Neil Young.

wendy: 2:49

Okay, I'm not a fan of Neil Young, but it's still a profound statement that he says so Well, yeah.

tiffany: 2:55

I mean I love Neil Young, but that's okay, I mean we all got our things. Patricia Quin I think it's so hard to say Patricia Crenwinkle and Ella Jo met Dennis Wilson of the Beach Boys on Sunset Boulevard. Now, at the time the Beach Boys was the bomb in the 1960s. Hell yeah, I love the Beach Boys. Yeah, I kind of liked them too. I mean they were feel good like California. You know Surfer Boy music, you know.

wendy: 3:24

I used to listen to them on her way to Salisbury Beach. It was something my adoptive mom played. It was the Beatles, Beach Boys, Elvis Presley and Kenny Rogers. Those were the ones that we used to listen to on our way to the Beach. So it gives me that positivity, well, that positive nostalgia.

tiffany: 3:42

I don't know if I can get down with Kenny Rogers.

wendy: 3:46

You know it's funny because I only like two country singers, and him and Johnny Cash are those two, so everyone says they can switch me when it comes to what's her face, dolly Parton.

tiffany: 3:58

Yeah, I love Dolly Parton and I like Johnny Cash, but I was never a big fan of the other dude.

wendy: 4:04

I love Kenny.

tiffany: 4:05

Rogers, they were thumping, they were thumping. I'm having trouble talking tonight. Manus brought the girls home with him and then went to a recording session. When he returned home at 3 AM the black bus was outside and there was like 20 women in his living room. Manson met Dennis in the driveway and kissed his feet. Dennis was confused but his house was full of loose young women and drugs. Oh, how sweet he likes that. I just saw it. It's kind of cute. Aw, I don't know what it is, I don't know. Anyway, manson freaked him out a little bit but he was charismatic and Wilson kind of took a liking to him. He allowed the group to use his car, his house, his credit cards and unfortunately the group managed to mooch about 100 grand off of Wilson's door in their stay. They also totaled Dennis's Mercedes, which was $21,000, and his Ferrari 275 GTB.

tiffany: 5:09

While driving around LA, manson was hopeful that this was his big chance to get in with the Beach Boys and show him his music. He tried to get in with the music producer Marty Melcher, who produced Turn, turn Turn, tambourine man and other 60's hits. He was living on the famous Cielo Drive when he met Charlie Manson at Dennis Wilson's home. Paul Watkins talked about the shit that went down on Dennis Wilson's property. Later, in a book he had written, manson would have men go to Dennis Wilson's house and orgies would commence. Manson ordered Paul Watkins to give him oral sex and a communal gathering. The women would sleep with each other and it actually freaked out Wilson's guests. The girls would go down on each other in front of these men who would come over just to hang out with this harem of women and party. Manson even had the goal of trying to get everyone to come at the same time, but it was impossible. I mean, that's a weird game to play, you know. Ha, ha, ha ha ha, ha, ha ha.

wendy: 6:07

I can see where that'd be quite an achievement, though. At least it's a goal.

tiffany: 6:11

Yeah, I mean, at least he does have goals, ha ha ha, shoot for the moon.

wendy: 6:15

if you miss, you can end up among the stars.

tiffany: 6:18

Yeah, literally shoot for the moon.

wendy: 6:21

Ha ha, yeah, shoot Ha ha ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha ha ha, ha, ha Shhh.

tiffany: 6:26

With lots of sex came lots of STDs, and one of the girls contracted gonorrhea and she gave it to the other girls. So soon the entire place was sick with the STD and so was Dennis Wilson. He took the entire family to the doctor to get penicillin shots and he claimed it was probably the largest gonorrhea bill in history. Ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha. Imagine taking like 20 people to the doctor with you to get gonorrhea penicillin shots.

wendy: 6:55

Wow, that's something. Also, I just have to say that gonorrhea to me sounds like a really pretty girl's name and I wish they didn't use it for a sex. Ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha. A STD what you don't think. So Climidia and gonorrhea.

tiffany: 7:08

Yeah, whatever I mean, it does sound like a woman's name.

wendy: 7:13

It does. It sounds like a pretty woman's name, and then they go and fuck it up by making it this nasty disease.

tiffany: 7:18

Seeping weeping disease. Yeah, it totaled to be about $1,000, which I don't even know what that would equate to in today's time, but it was we're talking the 60s till now and I know that they said that his $21,000 Mercedes Benz would have been about a million dollars today. So I'm sure that this $1,000 bill is probably like 10 grand or more in today's money, but I thought this one was funny. The members would have to stand up and spread their cheeks and show everyone their asshole in a ceremony of liberation. Ha ha, ha, ha ha. Look at my brown eye.

wendy: 7:56

Look at it, I'm liberated. I was thinking of that song, brown Eyed Girl, right when you said that too, you're my brown eyed girl. Brown eyed girl.

tiffany: 8:08

No, charlie started using Wilson's house as his address for his parole officer and even put it on his ID after he moved out. Dennis ended up moving out because the family was robbing him blind. They were taking his gold records, his clothes, whatever else they wanted, but instead of calling the police on him, he just moved out of the house. During this time, charles started using verbiage to get his followers to pledge their undying loyalty to him, saying things like would you die for me? And telling them they had the choice to live forever.

tiffany: 8:40

Terry and Charles seemed to get along. He was invited back to his place a couple times and even took a few trips in his Rolls Royce on a few occasions. Terry eventually came over to sit and listen to Manson's music and thought it was actually pretty good, but not enough for the label. Charlie was confident that he was gonna be a star, so when Charlie asked Terry if they had a deal and Terry told him that he would get back to him, charles wasn't thrilled with that answer. Many people listened to Manson's tapes, including Rudy Altabelli. Rudy knew about Manson's cult-like group and strange philosophies. Even though he thought that Charlie's music was good, he couldn't get down with everything else going on with the Manson family, eventually given Charlie a hard pass.

wendy: 9:29

Some of these people have to think like business-minded people, and that sounds to me, if I were to be in this man's shoes, a liability.

tiffany: 9:39

Exactly, and that's, I think, exactly what they were thinking. But Charlie didn't only write music, he wrote scripts for movies too. In the biography of Steve McQueen it was alleged that Manson submitted a script to Solar Productions and again was met with a hard ass. No, wah, wah, the pain.

wendy: 9:59

As a writer. The pain oh.

tiffany: 10:01

Dennis was complaining about how the Beach Boys couldn't come up with any new tunes that were album-worthy and thought that Charles' songs would be a good new addition to the group's sound. Manson wrote a track called Seize To Exist. It was really trippy and it had good lyrics. I wanna play a clip of it. I don't know if it's copyrighted, but maybe if I just do like a real quick little clip of it, you can get the gist of it and that way, if you wanna look it up later, you can look it up later.

wendy: 10:29

Pretty girl Pretty pretty girl. Seize to death. Just come and say you love me, give up your world. Come on, you can't be. I'm your kind, hold your kind. I can see. So that's a clip of Charlie Manson's Seize To Exist song that he tried to submit to Dennis.

tiffany: 11:09

So that's a clip of Charlie Manson's Seize To Exist song that he tried to submit to Dennis Wilson. Was he playing the guitar in that, do you know? Yeah, he was playing the guitar and singing. Oh, wow, that's not bad. Yeah, he's actually pretty good. So that's why they said he had like a Dylan-esque feel. He's very trippy, like very of the time. You know what I'm saying? Indeed, I agree.

tiffany: 11:32

Dennis had shown the track to the Beach Boys, who took it, changed the lyrics and released it as Never Learn Not To Love. All right, so you get the contrast there. The Beach Boys one was more poppy, it wasn't anything like Charles Manson's version, but Charles was more earthy and more flower power. That's still dirty. Well, it wasn't because here's the thing Manson gave him the song to do this with, see Manson, oh, okay, yeah, manson didn't care that he used the track because he wanted to be a songwriter, he wanted to be famous.

tiffany: 12:42

The problem was that the Beach Boys didn't credit Manson for even writing the song. Instead, dennis Wilson was solely credited on the album. In return for the song, manson did receive some cash and a motorcycle, in which he gifted to Paul Watkins and I'm sorry for only playing a small clip, but I don't have copyrights to this music so I can't play a full song or anything like that. Like I said, I'm gonna post the links in the show notes. If you wanna check out the full song, you can go there and listen to the YouTube channels or whatever. So Charlie was pissed, to say the least. So he walked up to Dennis holding a single bullet, and when Dennis asked him what it was, manson replied it's a bullet. Every time you look at it, I want you to think how nice that your kids are safe. Van Dyke Parks claimed that Dennis beat the shit out of Manson in front of a bunch of people and he returned to spawn ranch with his tail between his fucking legs. So Dennis ended up rocking his ass.

wendy: 13:40

Not hot enough, I believe.

tiffany: 13:42

Yeah, I don't think so either. He needed a humbling. Yeah, he did. Charles started scaring Dennis so badly that he went into hiding.

tiffany: 13:52

It was around August 1st that Dennis Wilson and Greg Jacobson decided to abandon the house and move to a new house near the Pacific Coast Highway. The two left the house for anyone who wanted to crash there, but the two were fed up with the chaos that came with the family. For a few months people came and went from Dennis Wilson's old property, mainly picking up their things and crashing on occasion. Eventually the house was sold to new owners and they had to hire guards to stop the vagrants from coming over and taking over their friggin' property. Charlie called Dennis to find out where Terry Melcher was and why he didn't get back to him him, but Dennis couldn't really give him an answer. Charlie believed your word was your motherfucking bond and that he had been cheated out of this contract. After he was made promises that no one could keep.

tiffany: 14:43

In a new book called Good Vibrations, dennis Wilson gave a new confession that he says that he had been holding on to. He claimed the reason he was so afraid of Charles Manson was because he witnessed the murder of a black man on Spawn Ranch who was then thrown down in a well. He alleges that Charles Manson pulled out an M16 and, I quote, blew this black cat cat being a term used for a man in the 60s, for those of you youngins. So he said he blew this black cat in half and stuffed them down a well. He confessed in the story to Love, who was 75 years old, and he says he believes Dennis.

tiffany: 15:25

But others think that it's a load of shit. So it was never proven. But that's what Dennis says. Prosecutor Stephen Kay doesn't believe the confession because there wasn't a well on the property. Nor was there any bodies found on the property that matched the description. Dennis said that he never went to the police because he was afraid of what might happen to him. The police believe the amount of drugs that Dennis was doing clouded his judgment. But if he was shaken up that bad about it, it is very possible that it could have happened, especially since the LAPD in the 1960s is who we're talking about here.

wendy: 16:00

Right, except Manson did give a lot of LSD to the people around him, so I mean that could procure like some kind of hallucination.

tiffany: 16:08

It could, but I think at the same time they were jumping around from property to property. So, like who's to say that Dennis Wilson wasn't high and he thought he was at Spawn Ranch, but really he was on Barker's Ranch.

wendy: 16:21

Well, exactly, I mean, if he was on LSD he could have imagined being anywhere. He could have imagined part of it and part of it being real. We know how that works.

tiffany: 16:29

Oh yeah.

wendy: 16:30

You're not seeing exactly what's going on and what's there, but that's a really good hypothesis. Perhaps they were at a completely different property when that happened.

tiffany: 16:39

Exactly, you don't know. So Terry Melcher moves out of the home in 1968 and in moved pregnant Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski in 1969. Sharon Tate was born on January 24th 1943 in Dallas, texas. Her family moved to Verona, italy, where she attended Vincenza American High School, where she became homecoming queen and prom queen. In Verona she met Eli Wallach, susan Strasberg and Richard Baymer. They were shooting a movie in the area. It was very old Hollywood. When Richard said to Sharon y'all to be in pictures. She thought about it and decided maybe she should pursue a career in acting.

wendy: 17:20

You should pursue a career in acting. That was so good.

tiffany: 17:25

Sharon's father was moved to a base in San Pedro, california, which was the perfect place to get into the movie business. See Sharon she hitchhiked to Los Angeles studios because she couldn't afford a cab fare. Sharon's start was in TV commercials but graduated to low level TV and film. Her first TV role was in 1963, where she was cast in Petticoat Junction, a TV show based out of New York. It was produced by Martin Ransohoff. That's a hard one who took notice of Sharon's good looks and star quality. He said, sweetie, I'm gonna make you a star. And that he did. Martin sent Sharon a seven year contract and enrolled her in training classes to act, sing and dance. He wanted the whole trifecta. He even had gotten her a small part in the Beverly Hillbillies, the Americanization of Family and Sandpaper. I've never seen any of those, except for the Beverly Hillbillies, by the way.

wendy: 18:21

That is mine and Sonny's show Beverly Hillbills. I love it. The grandmother's amazing. I love her. You had Granny Clampett.

tiffany: 18:28

Yes, she's great, I want to be a man in the woods with a shotgun.

wendy: 18:33

She's great Moonshine making crazy women. She's fantastic.

tiffany: 18:37

Yeah, I love her. So during this time Sharon met Jay Sebring. He was the hairstylist of the stars in 1963. And they met at a Hollywood restaurant and hit it off. They became lovers and then became engaged. Jay was described as a successful, eager entrepreneur and called the king of the haircut. You get it. He purchased a beautiful home in Benedict Canyon where he lived until his death. The home was originally Gene Harlow's at one time and that's the same home that Paul Byrne shot himself with his gun in 1932.

tiffany: 19:13

In 1965, sharon had her first major role in the film 13, aka the Eye of the Devil. It was a movie about a religious sect that worshiped the devil and had sacrificial ceremonies. 13 was filmed in London, england, and Jay came to visit with Sharon while she was filming. The two rented an apartment and eaten square, but it was very short-lived because Jay had his own career pressures to return to California for clients. So soon after he had to return home.

tiffany: 19:44

In 1966, martin hired Roman Polanski to film a movie that he had created and wanted Polanski to meet Sharon. Martin was eager to get Sharon in one of Polanski's movies. The two hit it off quite quickly and there was a cute little anecdotal story about how Sharon and Roman were hanging out and Roman excused himself for a moment and then he came back with a Frankenstein mask on and creeped up behind Sharon and he went boo and scared her half to death, which showed their very playful nature. In April of 1966, jay complained to friends that basically Roman was stealing his girl's attention, and by summer Jay had flown to London and it was evident that things were over for he and Sharon, and it was also evident that Sharon and Roman were an item. Once the breakup ensued, jay flew back to LA devastated.

wendy: 20:38

Poor.

tiffany: 20:38

Jay In unison. In 1967, sharon appeared in Playboy with a spread called the Tate Gallery. All the pictures were shot by Roman Polanski as spicy, and she was also recognized for her role as Jennifer in the Valley of the Dolls, which helped her skyrocket her career. And she finally was getting recognized. Did you ever see Valley of the Dolls?

wendy: 21:04

No, I haven't, but I knew you were going to ask and you knew I was going to say no.

tiffany: 21:07

Oh, well, I remember seeing it for a short period of time when I was young. I never finished the movie. I know that and now I want to rewatch it because I don't even know how little I was when I first saw it. But I would love to rewatch it because my friend I'm not going to say his name, but he was telling me about it and he said that it was actually really good but you can only really watch it one time. All the way through he said otherwise, it just kind of sucks, but he said you have to watch it. It's like one of those movies that you got to watch but you can only watch it like one time.

wendy: 21:39

There are some movies where the highlight of that movie is figuring it out and then, once you have it figured out, all the rest of it sucks. I can't think of okay, yeah, I mean like I can't think of one, like right off the top of my you know, but Inception. Oh, there you go. There's what I see.

tiffany: 21:57

Wait, wait, there's another one, Shutter Island.

wendy: 22:02

Well, I would say Fight Club, except I've watched it like a hundred times. But I feel like once you get to the end of it and you watch other people who've seen it for the first time, you're like hmm, I wonder if they're going to notice that there are two personalities, because I didn't until like midway through.

tiffany: 22:17

Like further than that. Yeah, I think I realized that halfway through the movie.

wendy: 22:21

Yeah, right, it was like a little bit passed halfway through for me. I'm like wait a minute, am I? Oh, I think I'm right and then it was further solidified later on. But I love watching other people not know it. That's all. I've seen it so many times because I get excited.

tiffany: 22:36

They don't know. Well, I watch it alone every once in a while and I'm like into it. I still love it. It's a great movie. I still have it on DVD.

wendy: 22:44

So do I, but now I've seen it so many times I can only enjoy it, and if somebody else is watching it with me, they either have to be adamant about it and love it themselves, or they haven't seen it yet. It was great watching it with my kids when they turned of age. I'm like you guys are old enough, let's watch Pulp Fiction and Fight Club, okay.

tiffany: 23:03

I love both of those movies. Paramount Pictures offered to buy the script for a Rosemary's Baby, so they start up producing the film. During that time Jay played nice, roman had no hard feelings and Sharon loved having them both in her life. So Jay squashed any hard feelings and the three became good friends, although later people reported that Jay never, quite ever fell out of love with Sharon. On January 20th 1968, roman and Sharon were married in London. After staying around in LA for within a few rented houses, the two decided to rent the famous Cielo Drive home after Terry moved out. It was the perfect home to make a nursery and raise Roman and Sharon's baby. The fact that the new Hollywood power couple moved into Terry's house didn't matter to Manson. Actually, it didn't even matter to Manson that the people living in the home were not Terry Melcher. He blamed the home itself because it represented to him everything that was wrong with society and became fixated on the property.

tiffany: 24:08

The family met Charles Watson in 1968 at Dennis Wilson's house. He was a swinger who was dating a stewardess from Chicago. Charles was nicknamed Tex and became known as Tex Watson. Tex was born in Coopville, texas, on December 2nd 1946. He lived in average childhood for someone who lived in a royal farm town. He liked riding his bike and working in the cotton fields. Tex helped his father at the family grocery store, slash gas station and seemed like an all-around good kid. He studied business administration in North Texas State College and joined a fraternity. But Tex dropped out of college in 1966 and moved to LA in 1967. He was a wig dealer at Crown Wig Creations on Santa Monica Boulevard near the Beverly Hills. So it was a bit strange when he decided to join the family and claim that he was Charles' man. He, like legit, said I am Charlie and Charlie is me. That's his exact quote.

wendy: 25:10

I'm sure Charlie wasn't very happy when he found out about that.

tiffany: 25:13

Well, I think Charlie in a way was kind of happy about that because he could control Tex, because Tex and him were like. Tex was like his, his drill sergeant. Tex was like his right hand man. A woman named Linda Cassabian joined Spawn Ranch after her marriage to her husband started failing. She recounts her time at Spawn Ranch and why it was so appealing. Gypsy told her about how Charlie and everyone there loved each other. It sounded so perfect.

tiffany: 25:41

In contrast to her failing marriage, the family welcomed her and her daughter with open arms. Linda left her husband and instantly joined the group. She was comfortable with communal living and said that there was plenty of children, which made her feel safe on the ranch. Linda felt comfortable leaving her child in the care of the other women because they were so loving and welcoming. Her husband inherited $5,000 and she knew where he kept it, which was in their trailer.

tiffany: 26:07

Linda took a liking to Tex Watson. He was kind of you know, the all-American boy kind of looking guy. He was like the dude down the street and the night she met him she banged him. Tex was Charlie's right hand man, like I was saying earlier, and he was the authoritarian soldier of the group. Tex was able to convince Linda to get the money and give it to the family. So Tex drove Linda to the trailer to pull off the burglary so that she would be accepted into the family for good.

tiffany: 26:34

After she gave him the $5,000, charlie wanted to meet Linda. She told Charlie that Gypsy brought her there and she recalls how magnetizing he was Just being face-to-face with him. She could see what everyone else saw in Charles Manson. Linda's husband and his friend had shown up in a fit of rage. When he found out where she was and what she had done, linda was so scared that she hid while he was screaming where's Linda, where's Linda? So of course, charlie walks out and confronted her husband and straight up threatened to kill him with a knife. And he was so afraid that he and his friend climbed back into their truck and drove away without the $5,000 or Linda, and he left his kid there too, by the way, pussy, I was just gonna say that Pussy.

wendy: 27:20

We could have synchronized again.

tiffany: 27:22

I know, which shows you how easily Manson's tiny little ass could still chill somebody down to the bone with his little temper. With a knife, though, a fucking knife.

wendy: 27:32

No.

tiffany: 27:33

He's so tiny. Well, I guess he had all those people around and he had techs there and he had some other guys there, so he might have been afraid because there's multiple men. It wasn't just little old Charlie.

wendy: 27:43

That's true. I'm still surprised that he made that dude his right hand man after pretending to be him.

tiffany: 27:48

Yeah, I know.

wendy: 27:49

God, that irritates me.

tiffany: 27:50

Yeah. So Manson's son had developed a yeast infection. He sent some of the girls to Mendocino to take them to the free clinic. Charlie stayed behind at the Wilson House. The people in Mendocino became familiar with the girls and started calling them the witches of Mendocino. The girls stayed in the commune style house for a little bit and met a 17 year old boy. They slipped him a tab of LSD and his mother called authorities on the girls. They were arrested and Charlie's son was placed in foster care.

tiffany: 28:22

The members arrested were Yeller Mary Bruner, patricia Crenwinkel, sadie Glutz, which was sexy, sadie aka Susan Atkins, robert Bromsie, peter Cornbooth and Eugene Nagel. Over the next two months, charlie taught his followers that they were to worship the infant consciousness. Children were not cursed by culture but acted spontaneously from the soul. The child was the part of the chain of rebirth because the group strongly believed in reincarnation. Birth control was not allowed in the group, not even condoms. Charlie encouraged pregnancy and childbirth and to him women had no souls but were super aware slaves whose job it was to serve men, and he wasn't afraid of gonorrhea resurfacing.

tiffany: 29:12

Obviously not.

wendy: 29:12

Sick fuck on all accounts.

tiffany: 29:14

Yeah, that's the only thing I like so far in the story that I really hate about him. Of course I hate the murdery stuff too, but that doesn't come till later. But in this part of the story I was pissed off when he started talking shit about the women's being soulless slaves. Right, charlie controlled the group through sex and would drill into the members that the ego was the problem. If you stripped away the ego you would be totally free. But also, without an ego, it was easier to control other people with sex. You had to share everyone. No one had sex unless Charlie allowed it. Manson managed to navigate all the women without having any close relationship with any one girl. They were all satisfied with that. Also, to curve jealousy, he would tell the girls to find a girl prettier and younger and that they had to bring them back to him. He had a thing for spiritual, masochistic redheads. If they fit in they could stay, but if they couldn't fit in they had to get back.

tiffany: 30:12

Manson started using playful tactics to get the group to do what he wanted. He had them sneak into strangers' houses and rearrange all their furniture and then sneak out again. He called them creepy crawly missions. The members would do it and it was kind of funny to play pranks, but also scary for the person whose home was literally being invaded. And they wake up in all their furnitures in different spots. I mean, that must be really trippy. Yeah, a poltergeist. Yeah, a poltergeist of hippies. The family had come in contact with a lot of groups over the last two years, especially when staying in the spiral staircase on and off, some of the satanic blood ritual groups freaked them out a little bit. See, the Manson family wasn't really into that kind of ritualistic whipping each other bloodletting type stuff. They even claimed that the stuff that they saw in the spiral staircase engulfed them in madness. I'm paraphrasing here the people that they came in contact with in other places too seem to have rubbed off on them a little bit. Eventually, manson started claiming that he was Christ and the devil, that they followed the Old Testament type God, the one who was cruel and kind.

tiffany: 31:23

By 1968, charlie was sending out followers to set up churches for his teachings. He was trying to expand but didn't tell his followers much else about his plans. He sent Dean Morehouse, which was the reverend we were talking about last episode, to do his bidding. Dean was doing as he was told, and organizing people for these churches, but unfortunately the churches never came to fruition because the family's plans would be thwarted by prison.

tiffany: 31:52

Charlie had strict rules about what was acceptable and what was banned. He banned books except for the Siddhartha and the Bible. Jimmy Hendrix's music was banned for being black slave music. That's what he called it. Yeah, I know it's ridiculous, because he was playing rock and roll. It's not even close to what you would consider quote unquote, black slave music. This is very rumored of him. Yeah, very Aryan brotherhood. He even banned glasses on the ranch. Didn't matter if you could see what out, couldn't see what out. Yeah, they were fucking banned.

tiffany: 32:26

Like fuck your poor eyesight, said the little man with the crazy eyes. So this was the funniest thing about Manson I found. He would pick up live snakes and random animals from the desert and he would make them submit by throwing a crazy eye at him, like he would stare him down until they were docile enough to handle. And I, just in my head, I just pictured like I forget what movie it was where the guy he just like does the eye snap oh it's, let's go to prison or something, that movie. And he like does the eye snap. He's like you gotta give him the crazy eye and he's like wheeching. And I can see Charlie Manson with the one eye like cock shut and the other one wide open and he's like staring at the snake like fucking.

tiffany: 33:08

I'm gonna dominate you as little tiny man. And they believe this shit.

wendy: 33:12

And so you know that scene on Roger Rabbit, when I killed your brother. I don't look just like this For some reason. That just came to the front of my mind, because he's skinny, he's trying to pop it out and fucking out yes. Especially because he was so skinny and small yeah.

tiffany: 33:29

No, he was tall, though, I think, but he but Manson's short, but it don't matter, because he was skinny too. So I get, why does he?

wendy: 33:34

know, I don't think he was it's the same dude.

tiffany: 33:36

He was long. He was long and thin.

wendy: 33:39

Ha, my dad would say he's not thin and he's wider. But that's the same dude that played the doc from back to the future, right.

tiffany: 33:49

Yeah, he's real tall and thin.

wendy: 33:51

Is he tall? No shit, in my head he's been short this entire time. No, he's pretty tall, fuck. All right, I'm gonna have to reassess what I've thought of him all these years. We'll have to Google all. I still saw that regardless.

tiffany: 34:03

Yeah. During Charlie's crucifixion the members tied him to the cross on top of the fountain of the world. They reenacted the crucifixion and then had an orgy afterwards. From this point on, the girls started saying amen to Charlie after he spoke. He also started formulating obedience tests for the girls, where he would like tell them to do something, and if they attempted it he would call them back and then tell them that they didn't have to do it anymore.

tiffany: 34:29

On August 20th 1968, Susan Atkins was arrested with a couple other group members for illegal drugs. She took the possession of pot charge so the others wouldn't have to. She was very pregnant and incarcerated when the probation officer wrote this about her. Your honor, it is in our opinion that incarceration for this defendant would be of little or no use to society or to herself. Even while she was still a minor, she was well on her way to a career of minor confidence style operations, High-styled prostitution and prostitution of herself in the more general sense as an object of entertainment and vicarious satisfaction for the other damaged souls.

tiffany: 35:12

Manson was known to have a trigger temper that would spark. Randomly. He chased a father and daughter down the street with a knife and said that it was because he had an infection in his tooth that seeped into his brain and made him like crazy the father or Manson Manson. He blamed it on a toothache, chasing the other man down the street with a knife, Right, okay. So with his temper and fraternization with other violent criminals came his connection to the gypsy jokers of San Jose. They were one of the most violent biker groups around the area and were in the top 1% of elite bike clubs. They hung around a leather shop that Manson would frequent and one of the members. He took a liking to one of Manson's girls and they developed a connection. The gypsy jokers even gifted Manson and a few members an entire outfit made out of leather or outfits. The family also developed association with the biker gang, the jokers out of hell, whose members were practicing the occult and one member had a record store in Santa Monica.

tiffany: 36:17

With the motorcycle clubs came Manson's manipulation. He used the girls to seduce the bikers into giving up their possessions to the family. They were to suck and fuck their way into stealing watches, money and jewelry. If any of the bikers had wives or girlfriends, the girls would convince them that they didn't need to deal with an old lady If they tried to bring them to stay with the family. The girls would piss off the other women so that they would become jealous and leave. In a way, the family was like an outlaw bike club. The girls even were anklets to symbolize ownership. They were Charlie's girls.

tiffany: 36:55

In the summer and fall of 1968, Manson was involved with a death cult that operated out of the devil house in the height district. It was there that Manson claimed to have lived with them for a little while. This was a gay satanic cult that only allowed men into its establishment. Women who accompanied men had to stay in a waiting room. One day Manson came by and sat in one of the sacrificial meetings. They didn't end up killing the guy that day, but they were close to it. Instead, they beat the shit out of the man and they beat him in the face with a fucking crucifix and then threw holy water on him.

tiffany: 37:38

On October 7th 1968, Susan Atkins gave birth to her baby at the ranch. Manson was angry with Susan, and nobody knows why, but while she was in labor, Manson commanded her to boil him some water so that he could shave. He stayed calm and after that didn't pay much attention to the breaching birth that was going on in the next room. So the baby was breached, which, If you don't know what that means for other people out there cuz I know Wendy does it's when the baby's coming out the other way, like either sideways or upside down. All Susan had to take was marijuana to ease the pain and soft singing from the members of the family. Oh, oh, my god. Yeah, I couldn't imagine that shit. It's as much dirty as fucking there too.

wendy: 38:23

Oh, Sometimes marijuana too. It exacerbates the pain, at least it does for me, depending.

tiffany: 38:29

Yeah, I don't think I could smoke weed when I'm going in a labor. I don't think that's gonna ever be a thing. When the baby was born, manson took a guitar string and cut the umbilical cord with it.

wendy: 38:39

Holy fuck.

tiffany: 38:41

Yeah, I know it's wild, this poor woman. Charlie started drilling into the members heads that there was going to be a Rachel, a Rachel war, a racial war. Who the fuck's Rachel? And the black man was gonna be on top. Charlie wanted to take his followers into the desert, as in Revelation 9, to prepare for Armageddon.

tiffany: 39:03

Manson was extremely Racist but would say that the black man would rise up because all of the pain and turmoil that the white man put him through. Charles believed that once in power, the black man wouldn't know what to do with the power because, and I quote, they didn't know what to do unless the white man told him what to do. End quote. He claimed that you know, once they didn't know what to do, that they would then look for the white people who were left. So, like they kill all the white people and whoever's left, they're gonna give the power over to them and then the Manson family would rule the world.

tiffany: 39:38

To amp up the madness, charles became obsessed with the Beatles white album. He would play it for the members and decipher the songs to fit his narrative of this race war coming. He thought of the that the Beatles knew about the Manson family and that they were speaking directly to them, confirming his beliefs in the Armageddon. The group talked daily about Helter Skelter, which was the codename for the race war and also the name of one of the Beatles songs on the white album. Everyone was excited and anxious about Helter Skelter because the outcome was unknown and it was injected into almost every Conversation in the group. People talked about it as casually as they talked about the weather.

wendy: 40:20

I'm gonna have to listen to the white album all over, with this in the front of my mind, dude, the white album was probably one of the best fucking Beatles albums ever created. I love the Beatles and I love that album, but I never thought of these connotations until now. I'm gonna have to listen to it in a way that represents what these guys were thinking and a mind blown by a fact that these dudes and chicks, like they, actually believe this guy.

wendy: 40:48

Oh, I know he not just his level of persuasion and Potentially intoxication this entire time.

tiffany: 40:57

Wow, like wow, and that's how sexy Sadie got her name too. It was one from one of the Beatles songs. In June of 1968 Bobby Boussaleel brought Leslie Van Hooten with him from the Kailin Ranch to Spawn Ranch. They stole Leslie's roommate's dad's car and traveled to Spawn Ranch from Apple Valley. They dumped it somewhere in San Francisco. Leslie Van Hooten was born in Cedar Rapids, iowa. She was a choir girl, freshman-class Treasurer and got involved in self realization fellowship. She dropped out when she met Bobby and the rest was history.

tiffany: 41:34

Tex Watson was dealing drugs on Spawn Ranch and at one time robbed a dealer named Bernard Crow. Crow was obviously not happy with being robbed and threatened to kill every single person on Spawn Ranch. Charlie allegedly shot Crow at his Hollywood apartment on July 1st 1969. Crow wasn't a panther, but Charlie thought he was, which added fuel to the already burning fire that the panthers would Retaliate. Charlie wanted to assemble an army, so he tried to get the motorcycle gang on board, called the Straight Satan's. As a defense. He used the girls to bring this gang in and he tried to manipulate them once they were on the ranch, specifically Susan Atkins. Joe from the Straight Satan's took a particular liking to Susan and in return he played a huge role in building their escape route to the desert.

tiffany: 42:30

For the race war, things started spiraling out of control. Charlie took to beating any of the girls who asked too many questions. The peace and love mentality of the group was gone and now it was just one of complete control. If you stepped out a line, your life was now on the line. One time he took to beating Linda so badly that he started kicking her in the ribs just because she was asking questions. She never knew why she was beaten so badly, but she took it. Linda said that the reason everyone had stayed with Charlie was because that they truly believe him, that the Cities were going to burn, that the violence was going to be taken to the streets and that the people were really going to die. She said they felt safer there because they could band together and save each other.

tiffany: 43:17

Once Arctic Armageddon came, charlie made plans to forge a secret trail through the mountains and over the Mojave Desert. In preparation for the race war, he started with plans to build Dune buggies that would have mounted machine guns to take out anyone who had gotten in their way. On March 6 1969, charlie bought two dune buggies for $1,300, and that was the money that the family had stolen off of Linda's husband. The straight Satan's knew about the fire roads in the area and thought that this would be the perfect escape route for the family. Joe learned about the fire roads in prison and somehow the family had gotten a hold of the master key for the fire roads and all they had to do was clear the brush out of the way so that it would be clear sailing.

tiffany: 44:07

Patricia Crenwinkel purchased some maps that showed mountainous Regions between spawn ranch and death Valley to map out the route. Because of the dune buggy purchases, the family ran out of money and they needed it bad. Charlie started scheming and getting back in a petty crime to get the money any way he could. Gary Hinman was a man who lived in Topanga Canyon and Charlie had an idea that Gary had money hidden inside of his home. So I'm gonna stop here because we have a lot more to talk about in episode three, because this is a full part of wow Tiff.

wendy: 44:41

This is really intense and I didn't know much about Charles Manson to begin with, so this is almost new information To me because, save for knowing who he was through Maryland Manson of all people, I did lightly traverse who he was because allegedly Manson based his name on him, part of his name on him, so I looked him up at this amount of detail, like I'm so glad that you're the first one to teach me in depth about this, because this is profound and well-written and so well researched that I probably couldn't go anywhere else to get such good information.

tiffany: 45:19

Well, I'll tell you what.

tiffany: 45:20

There's a lot of good podcasts out there that talk about Manson family and all that, and there's so many books. This is one of those cases where you can go down rabbit hole after rabbit hole after rabbit hole, because so many people wrote about Theories and rumors of the family and, of course, everything wasn't documented back then. So they have a lot of information. I could only read through a book about four documentaries and then I watched like Interviews with each of the family members over the years, like many different interviews, to get this information. And I'm gonna tell you right now like I didn't even touch the tip of the iceberg, if I was to just do the Manson family, I could. We could have done like an entire podcast just on that, because there's these people in the world called Mansonites and they're like people obsessed with the Manson family and not necessarily in a Disgustingly bad way, but there are people that are just like obsessed about the case because there's a lot of unsolved crimes too. They go along with this that we're gonna talk about later.

wendy: 46:25

Well, still, I could not have chosen anyone better to read this to me, and I hope that the listeners love it as much as I have so far, because I really feel like I'm part of this journey right now.

tiffany: 46:35

Awesome wife. I thank you very much, and next week we're gonna pick it up with what happens with Gary Hinman, because Charlie's got this idea and it said that Gary Hinman has money hidden in his home and he's gonna go buck wild With Gary Hinman. So we'll talk about that next week. So I want to thank you guys for listening and If you'd like to check us out on Facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube or TikTok, then you can find us under rogue and wicked podcast. If you'd like to join our patreon and become a subscriber, then you can find us at wwwpatreoncom.

tiffany: 47:10

Slash. Rogue and wicked. Our tier one listeners get pictures, polls and exclusive content. Our tier two listeners get all that plus a bonus episode monthly. Our tier three subscribers our Tier three listeners get two bonus episodes monthly and all tiers get a shout out on the pod. Grab a copy of Wendy's book sage. It's available at rogue, poet net and equal stories. Questions or case suggestions should be sent to our email at rogue and wicked at yahoocom, and don't forget to give us a five-star review on Spotify, apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts. The more reviews that we get, the more pod episodes that we can bring to you you dig. Thanks for listening and until next time.