Rogue and Wicked
True Crime podcast with dark humor, two sexy brunettes, sprinkled with some paranormal stories and some pop culture for your hearing pleasure. We dive deep into true crime cases and give you the details that you don't always see in any one documentary. Follow us at Rogueandwicked on tiktok, instagram, facebook, twitter and youtube for pictures and more content on our cases.
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Rogue and Wicked
Lacey Fletcher's Unspoken Horror: A Tale of Neglect, Autism and a System's Grim Failure
Imagine the chilling tale of Lacey Fletcher, a young girl, entrapped in her own world due to social anxiety and autism, and abandoned in the most appalling conditions, by those who were supposed to protect her. This episode implores us to ask ourselves - How could this happen? Where were the systems that should have safeguarded her? Venture with us through the heart-rending story of Lacey and the unsettling role her parents, Sheila and Clay, played in the severe deterioration of her wellbeing.
Unraveling the horrifying details of Lacey's final years, we explore the shocking discovery of her body in January 2022, and the subsequent arrest of her parents on second-degree murder charges. As we navigate the disturbing aspects of this case, we are compelled to question the broader societal implications. How can we ensure that we, as a society, do better in supporting individuals with neurodevelopmental disabilities to prevent such egregious cases of neglect?
In the final part of our exploration, we pause to give due credit to the brave souls who have helped bring light to this case. We examine the defense attorney's argument that Lacey's behavior was a product of the times and question the true nature of the neglect she suffered. Join us for this harrowing journey into the life and tragic end of Lacey Fletcher - a stark reminder of our collective responsibility towards the care of the most vulnerable in our society.
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Script's, Editing, Social Media and the Creator of the show: Tiffany
Co-host and author of the book series "sage": Wendy
Music by Bo Todd
Welcome to Rogue and Wicked. Do you hear about this Ozark man who decided to become a murderer, 88 years old? No, really. I found this on Oxygen. It was on like strange cases. This dude, larry Shaw, was living with Kenny Barnes, who was a 52 year old man. The two had moved in together like six or seven years prior or something like that. The two were polar opposites Larry was more conservative and Kenny was kind of vulgar and bossy. One morning Kenny was barking orders at Larry to do some chores. Larry got really pissed off about it and he thought this is it. I've had enough of this dude.
tiffany:Larry moses his way over to get a gun and sat in his recliner. He just sat there for three hours with the gun stuffed down in the cushions. Then he pointed his gun at this dude, kenny, and just shoots him dead. When the police interviewed 88 year old Larry, he told him that he was glad Kenny was dead. Yeah, it's fucked up right. He was stone faced and didn't give a fuck that he just shot his roommate dead. He hated Kenny so much he even told police that he wanted to piss on his grave. The murder's not funny, but the dude's mug shot is. He's sitting there smiling like he just made a macaroni sunset out of nursing home.
wendy:Imagine waiting until you're that age to kill someone.
tiffany:That's what I mean. At that point you're probably just like fuck it, if I go to jail, I'm just gonna die in there anyway. He's probably thinking I'll get some peace of mind locked in my own cell. But it's like what the fuck dude?
wendy:If I die, I'm taking him with me, so he can't torture somebody else's mentality, right, lord knows?
tiffany:Lord knows wow, yeah, I figured. You know he probably figured, since his normal mortality rate for human beings is surpassed, that he would go out with a bang. So how's your week been, girl? Oh, it's been weird. It's been a weird week. I've been doing a lot of stuff. I was trying to like change out my furniture in the house for new furniture, because I wanted to like update some things in here, but like I can't find anything that goes with my motif, which is kind of crazy. So I'm still looking around, but that's about it. And then I was checking in to like maybe get in a kayak so I could go out on the river.
wendy:Oh, hell. Yeah, I have a paddle boat and I can't use it, but I would need a truck to deliver it to you if you ever wanted one.
tiffany:Oh, really, you got a paddle boat. I love paddle boats. Yeah, they're cool. I like tubing and shit too.
wendy:Oh yeah, tubing's fun as hell. My stepfather, Sonny, is pretty ruthless out on a speed boat and mother with a tube. You know my friend Justin. Oh yeah yeah, he almost killed that guy. Sent him like doing a tumbler salt like in the air.
tiffany:Oh really.
wendy:Yeah, it was pretty wild.
tiffany:So today we're going to be talking about this case. It's a really wild case. It's very different than what we normally do, because this is kind of questionable, right. So this is the case of Lacey Fletcher, which happened in Slaughter Louisiana. Normally I'd make some kind of quip right now about how it's ironic that a murder happened in Slaughter Louisiana, but this isn't a clear cut and drive murder case like we've done before. So the particulars of this case point more to the medical neglect than straight out murder. But first I want to talk about the town of Slaughter, just so you guys can get an idea of like what this town is all about and why it's named Slaughter.
tiffany:Slaughter is a town in East Feliciana Parish of Louisiana. The population is 826. So it's pretty obvious it's a rural community. How did it get its name, you ask? Well, good question, because I'm going to tell you Slaughter was incorporated in 1889. It received its name from the original owners of the land on which it was located. The owners of the land were Will Slaughter and his brother Joe. When the railroad was being cut through, the place was called Burnsville from a Mr Burns who cut the right away for the railroad. At the time the post office was located there and it was called Belzera. After the railroad was completed and a depot store was put there, the station and post office were both changed to Slaughter.
tiffany:Now Lacey Fletcher, the girl in our story that we're going to be talking about today. She was born on November 25th 1985. Her parents were Clay and Sheila Fletcher, who relocated to Slaughter when Lacey was 9 years old in 1994. Lacey attended Brownsville Baptist Academy and she was on the Academy's volleyball team. She was described as thoughtful and sweet in nature.
tiffany:Although she was quiet in school. She also could be loud on occasion. Lacey loved country music and Disney movies. Her classmates said that Lacey always made new people feel welcome and that she would do anything for anyone. She was a very loving and caring young girl, but she did have her problems. Lacey had a problem that 15 million Americans suffer with Social anxiety. I myself have really bad social anxiety and it causes me to blurt out things that are inappropriate at times. And it is so painful to have social anxiety because it affects the friends that you make and the chances that you take in trying to get to know other people. It can be de-habilitating at times, causing you to feel the sense of impending doom and just talking to someone that you don't know well causes you to get sick like physically ill, and that was evident as Lacey was getting older in school.
wendy:I know that Tiffany has been so ridden with social anxiety that she's been sick over it.
tiffany:Oh yeah, and I remember what was it like two weeks ago you had social anxiety for the first time in your life. That was so bad that you felt puny.
wendy:It was four weeks ago now, I think, and it was letting somebody that I love move into my space after having it alone for three years, and I was throwing up and sick and I called Tiffany and she's laughing at me.
tiffany:Yeah, I was laughing at her, Tiffany she's like I'm not alone.
wendy:And you know what, though, it was so awesome that you helped me laugh at myself in the midst of it. It helped me to overcome. I felt so much less sick as I was laughing. I don't know if that's a cure for it or not, but yeah, thanks for that, tiff. You got me through it, and you know why? Probably because you know exactly how it feels, so you knew what to do.
tiffany:Yeah, I do. I mean, it's like that feeling that you have when you go out on a date with somebody and you get really sick to your stomach. And I get that way no matter what social interaction that I have to deal with, even if it's somebody I know but I haven't seen them in a little bit or something, or if I have to have one-on-one time alone.
wendy:if somebody or go to a party, I get that same sick feeling and sometimes I actually do physically get ill when I have to go do something like that it's really crazy, because before not right before, but hours before it's like you're almost okay, but then, when it comes down to it, that hypothetical albio case starts to cease in the wake of oh, fuck, yeah, that poor girl.
tiffany:Now, as the students grew and progressed, lacey sort of stayed the same. It was noticeable when Lacey turned 14. She started socially withdrawing from all of the other classmates and friends that she had. She even started isolating herself and staying at home A lot. All of the other kids started doing teenage things like dating and talking about boys and dreaming about getting a car so that they didn't have to take the bus. That usually smelled like dirty feet and mold, but not Lacey, though. She was still into her own little world of childlike wonder. At this age Lacey still was watching Disney movies and being a kid. She didn't notice the change that she was supposed to have.
tiffany:As the other kids were hitting puberty, other teens noticed a divide in maturity between themselves and Lacey and sadly for Lacey, the only friend that she did have ended up moving away for school, which left Lacey completely isolated from her peers. I think Lacey even started noticing differences between her and the other students, which made her withdraw herself completely. No one really saw her anymore and she retreated into her home, but once in a while a neighbor would see Lacey walking around the neighborhood alone. Lacey's parents were concerned with her behavior and they took her to see a psychologist for her extreme social anxiety. That's when her parents decided it was best to pull Lacey from school.
tiffany:This was between the years of 1999 and 2000. It was also that very same psychologist that diagnosed Lacey with Asperger's syndrome. For those of you living under a rock, asperger's is a neurodevelopment disability that affects the ability to effectively interact and communicate with people, also known as autism. There is no actual difference between Asperger's and autism, except that Asperger's is the form of autism that is high functioning, versus autism, which would be somebody who is a lower functioning person. According to the Google machine, 3.5 million Americans suffer from autism.
wendy:And, as you know, my offspring is one of them.
tiffany:Yes, Actually I thought of you when I was doing this case, because you mentioned that to me prior.
wendy:And Trin absolutely adores Tiffany too. I have such good kids I really do but when you were mentioning how she was kind of like hooked on things that younger kids are, it instantly made me think of her.
tiffany:Yeah, it does, because they kind of don't have the same realizations that older children do or children of their own age. They kind of fall behind a little bit because of their neurodevelopmental disability. It's probably the right way to say it.
wendy:And my intent is to get along with those who are substantially older or younger and kind of veers off into alternate realities, a little bit like anime. And God knows, Trin is like an amazing artist. She's got her culinary arts degree. I've never let any of those things like hinder her from just acting normal in society. In fact she didn't know about it but I did have until like way later on she knew about it because I didn't want her to think of herself as less than anyone else. But I did have her programs for her social anxiety since like third grade.
tiffany:Yeah, and it seems to have done a really good thing for her because she seems to be very outgoing for the most part.
wendy:Well, yeah, especially those that she's really comfortable with, tiff, though but you're one of those people that Trin's comfortable with, and that's not always the case, because she gets sensory overload sometimes, and I swear she like an animal when it comes to like sensing pieces of shit too Like she will probably got that spidey sense. Yeah, yeah, for real though.
tiffany:Lacey was being seen less and less than she had been homeschooled.
tiffany:The last time Lacey was seen at all was by her next door neighbor. She was walking around the neighborhood again with her weights and when the neighbor noticed her he said that she was just kind of by herself, like keeping to herself, didn't really talk to anybody and just kept walking. But after that one sighting she was never seen from or heard from again, at least not from the townspeople of slaughter. Sheila and Clay were the only people who knew what happened to Lacey Fletcher after that day. Lacey would have been about 21 years old during the sighting. The last time a doctor was consulted regarding Lacey was in 2010. Sheila and Clay went to the doctor's office without Lacey and asked for his advice. They said that she was not wanting to leave the house, not wanting to leave the sofa, and that she was totally recluse. No one knows what the doctor told them to do because no one would see Lacey until 2022. When she was discovered deceased, lacey's parents were fairly normal. According to the locals, sheila was a deputy clerk at the Zachary City Court in Baker, louisiana. Sheila was also the vice mayor who, in lieu of the real mayor, not being able to perform their duties. She would act as the mayor as a stand-in. Sheila resigned from her post on the town's board of the Elderman on January 24th 2022. She served four years on the board. Until that day, clay was an officer of a non-profit Baton Rouge Civil War roundtable, which has a mission to educate and foster an appreciation for the sacrifices made by all during the Civil War. And it's safe to say that Sheila was the breadwinner in the household, because I couldn't find anything that said that Clay had any real paying job. Plus, they were like kind of in their I wouldn't say the winter of their lives, but they were over the age of 60, so it is a very real possibility that Clay was retired. Both Sheila and Clay regularly attended Baptist Church in Zachary Louisiana. They were active participants in the church and in the community. People from the community said that they were the type to do anything for anybody at any time. People started asking questions about Lacey throughout the years, but Sheila and Clay would always tell people that she was at home and she was fine, and that was it. They didn't bring up Lacey or talk about her after she disappeared in the year 2000, and everyone was wondering what had happened to Lacey. Where was she? In 2017, robert Blades, a neighbor of Sheila and Clay's, asked where she had been because he realized he hadn't seen her in a long time. But again, clay said that she was home and she was fine. And then he changed the subject, which left Robert feeling a little weird about the encounter, but he didn't pry anymore.
tiffany:On January 3rd 2022, around 2 am, sheila Fletcher called 911 to report that Lacey was not breathing. A sheriff's deputy was dispatched to go to the home of Clay and Sheila Fletcher, and what he walked in on was something so shocking that it left the whole town in an uproar. Lacey was found with her legs tucked under her body. There was a huge hole worn in the couch that her body was completely cradled by. She had ulcers all over her back and her buttocks was blackened from being confined to the sofa for so long. Lacey's hair was so matted that maggots found a home in her scalp. Her face and chest had been covered in feces. Inside of the sofa were feces and urine which filled the entire inside of the cushion like a literal cesspool. Her skin was worn in some places and there was no skin in other places, just large yellow spots where skin used to be, there were cleaning products, wipes and other accoutrements that would be used to care for somebody who was ill, but it hadn't looked like they had been used on her at all. She was 96 pounds and obviously malnourished. Lacey also tested positive for Covid at the time of her death. The odor was so bad that you could smell it as soon as you opened the door. Dr Bickham said the smell was sickening.
tiffany:When questioned by the police, shilla's story was that Lacey was alive. At 10 pm Shilla fell asleep in a chair and woke up at 2 am to find Lacey dead on the sofa, which was awful. No mother should have to ever experience such a thing. Except Lacey had been deceased from 24 to 48 hours before she called the authorities. Lacey's parents said that the reason that they took her out of school was because of her anxiety disorder. So they decided to homeschool her, that she wouldn't get up from the sofa and wouldn't leave to even eliminate. Shilla said that she would bring Lacey meals to the sofa and she would just eat there. So she would literally defecate on the sofa and urinate there on a towel and eat in the same spot. They claim, however, that she was of sound mind and body, so she could come and go as she pleased, but chose not to. When asked why they hadn't seen a doctor, they said that she wasn't ill. There was no need to take her to see the doctor. Are you fucking kidding?
wendy:me. She had fucking maggots in her hair.
tiffany:In her fucking hair, in her head, in her scalp.
wendy:Right, I mean, and they walked past her stench and they walked past her not moving and didn't think, well, maybe there's something psychologically, if they weren't coherent enough or cognitive enough to fucking see that she was physically sick, there's something mentally sick, that's just.
tiffany:Oh, I know I was like in such disbelief when I heard about this because to me like how could you walk by your kid and leave it and I know she's like kind of an adult at this point? Wouldn't you have a nurse come in if you didn't want to care for her or something? Wouldn't you have somebody clean her up? Why would you leave anybody? In a pool of their own shit and piss.
wendy:Exactly, not only. I mean like I wouldn't walk past a stranger in that condition.
tiffany:Yeah, I wouldn't even walk past a dog in that condition.
wendy:Right, exactly. I mean clearly like there's no empathy there at all.
tiffany:No, there ain't Not a fucking shred of it. So now this is what Sheila's story was right. So, when questioned by the police, sheila's story was that Lacey was alive. At 10 pm Sheila fell asleep in a chair and woke up at 2 am to find Lacey dead on the sofa Right. That's what she said. Now Lacey's parents said that the reason that they took her out of school was because of her anxiety disorder. So they decided to homeschool her right, and we already went through that, following the autopsy.
tiffany:After all this, all this bullshit that her mother's like throwing around here, dr Ilbeck him the third, the parish coroner, ruled Fletcher's death a homicide impressed for an investigation. This is what he said about it. I couldn't eat for a week and I cried for a week. That's what he said in an article for WBRZ. He believed something criminal was happening here. Bigum says she died in the worst case of medical neglect that I have ever seen. No one was really sure. When the last time Lacey was mobile and able to get around From the scene, it was evident that she had been lying in that position for years.
tiffany:It came out later that she had been in that position for 12 years. 12 fucking years she was laying in her own shit and piss. In Clinton, louisiana, the courthouse held a close hearing with a sworn in grand jury to show them horrific crime scene photos. The macabre gruesomeness of these photos convinced the committee to charge Sheila and Clay of second degree murder and a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Right, that's what they wanted to charge them with. They were charged and released after 36 hours, when they posted a $300,000 bond. Each Mail online described the pictures shown at the close hearing. And you better hold on to your tits, because it's just, it's like really bad, it's really bad.
tiffany:Lacey was completely buried in the huge and deep hole in the sofa that her bony frame had worn over the years, like scraping away at the cushions. Her right arm is draped over the top part of her skeletal body near her neck, so she's got her arm like draped over her neck. She's leaning over on her left side. Her only clothing is a little blue pattern t-shirt that is pushed up on her chest, exposing her breasts. So she's pretty much naked. Her gaze is fixed on something. Her mouth is likewise open, exposing a complete set of front teeth. So it was evident that she hadn't been punched or hit in the face or anything, because she had all of her teeth. Her legs are pulled up and crossed underneath of her, ironically, in a way that people get comfortable.
tiffany:This is the problem here, though Lacey's posture, on the other hand, was for survival. If she wasn't in that position, she would have surely drowned to death in her own excrement, so she had to prop herself up like that. Lacey's cause of death was severe medical neglect, which resulted in chronic malnutrition, acute hunger, immobility, acute ulcer development, osteomyelitis, which is a bone infection. Of course she had a bone infection I mean, how could you not have any infection living like that? And eventually sepsis, meaning that her infection had become so bad that her whole body went septic. What really blows my mind is that the two parents could have dinners together, take Christmas photos and pretend to their peers that everything is normal, but yet out of the camera frame was Lacey lying there, helpless, on the sofa.
tiffany:Now knowing that I feel like they kind of wanted her to die. They had all the tools to care for her literally right next to her sofa, right but they chose not to use any of them. It seems to me like they intentionally left her in her own bacteria, hoping she would fester and die, maybe because to them she was a burden, or maybe they are just cruel and evil, but I guess we'll never really know, because to me there's like literally no fucking excuse for that at all.
wendy:Yeah, there is something to be said about the fact that they noticed her not breathing, but they didn't notice that she was in her own excrement, or at least didn't care enough to take care of it. How could a scene like that transpire in the backdrop and not concern somebody, like an onlooker, a parent? Honestly, it blows my mind, because it's such a different type of way to kill somebody. You know what I mean. It's not a premeditated murder, unless, of course, what you just suggested is true, which is very possible. It's not like a rage-filled fucking, you know what I mean. Instead, it's like straight neglect.
tiffany:It is because that she was literally like in the living room, like it wasn't like she was down in the basement somewhere in this sofa. She was like in their fucking living room. They're walking by her all day, every day, so they're just intentionally neglecting it.
wendy:It's like the elephant in the room, yeah, but your child and a person who is like clearly suffering. Did they mention anything in regards to like how the overall condition of the house was?
tiffany:Well, the overall condition of the house was like pretty clean, aside from that one section.
tiffany:Wow, yeah, there was one thing that I may not have mentioned, but I think I might have mentioned it that she had feces all over her face covered, I mean, from head to toe and shit Like it was caked all over her body.
tiffany:So like you would think that, as a caregiver, that you would at least try to wipe it off of the face. I mean, it doesn't take a whole lot. I mean, this woman and her husband did civil war enactments and she had a full-time fucking job. She was able to get up and go to work and get dressed and take care of herself and put her makeup on and shower herself and cook her meals and all this other stuff, but she wasn't capable of wiping her daughter down after she had excrement all stuck to her body. She couldn't clean up around the sofa, clean the sofa, buy a new sofa, like to me, just like you have to fucking. There's no other theory. I don't think other than you just wanted your kid to die because you didn't want to deal with it anymore, because there's no way that that woman could get up and do all those things and not take care of her own daughter.
wendy:Regardless of which she certainly didn't care if she lived.
wendy:Exactly Because that is just no way to live. And I mean like, if our animals are not moving, we're going to take them to the vet or we're going to take them out for a walk if we notice that they haven't been getting out enough, like we know to do those things for like for our animals. And this is like a human being. And you see, she's not leaving the couch. She's not like trying to take a shower or do anything Like the mom's not buying. If she hasn't left the couch, then the mom must know when she's going to the grocery store to buy her self shampoo, that like she's not buying it for her either. You know what I mean.
tiffany:Yeah, I know, it just takes your breath away.
wendy:It really does. I mean, and she's obviously, if she's acclimated to like civil society quote unquote, civil society too then that means like, like you said, she's showering, she's putting her makeup on, she's going out there. She knows the difference. The mom knows the difference between what is going on out there and what is going on with her child inside the house. She, there's just no way, unless she herself was completely mentally incapable of driving, incapable of working. The whole house was a fucking shitfest and you know, her daughter like blend in with the background of a hoarding mess. Even then it'd be super fucked up. But because that contrast is there, that is bizarre.
tiffany:Yeah, like that to me says I don't want you anymore because you are a burden in my life and I just wish that you would just expire. Like that's what that says to me. I mean, of course, like you know, I'm not inside of this woman's head, so I don't really know what she was thinking. I mean, I really don't know any other way to look at it.
wendy:How the fuck could she care if she died, if she?
tiffany:wasn't caring that she lived. You know exactly Like. That's what I'm saying Now.
tiffany:Sources claim that Lacy had suffered from Locked-in Syndrome, which is called LIS. It's also known as a pseudocoma and it's a rare neurological disorder characterized by complete paralysis of voluntary muscles, except for those that control the eyes. So people with LIS are conscious and can think and reason, but they are unable to speak or move. The only way they can communicate is through blinking and vertical eye movements. Some of the causes of this disorder may stem from traumatic brain injury, brainstem stroke, tumors, diseases of the circulatory system, ie bleeding, diseases that destroy the myelin sheath surrounding the nerve cells, like multiple sclerosis infection or medical overdose.
tiffany:There is no cure or specific treatments for Locked-in Syndrome, according to Guard the genetic and rare diseases in an information center. But Coroner Dr Bickham disagrees. He says there's no actual diagnoses of Lacy ever having Locked-in Syndrome. In fact, dr Bickham says he had never even heard of that diagnosis before. Bickham said all she had was severe anxiety and autism. Lacy hadn't even seen a doctor since she was 16, so no one could have possibly given her that diagnosis. Both Sheila and Clay pled not guilty to the charges of second-degree murder and the trial is set for February 6, 2023, but has since been moved to June 19, 2023.
wendy:So where are they in the interim.
tiffany:Ah well, I'm going to actually get to that. They're released right now because they made Bond, so I believe they're at home. I don't think they're in jail, but the district attorney said that they lost a daughter. I have not much, but I have little compassion for them. I think we have to send a message you need to take care of your people better than you do your animals, which I thought was pretty badass of the district attorney to say. But the weird thing about this whole thing is that some neighbors and friends said that they didn't even know that the Fletchers even had a daughter. They were shocked when they heard that this case was popping up on the news. The whole thing is heartbreaking. But what bothers me the most is there had to be some sort of intent. They even stopped bothering to put clothes on her so she would just defecate where she sat. Now it's like they gave up and they figured like well, maybe the Lord will take her if I just stopped caring for her.
tiffany:Now I do know what it's like to care for someone who can't care for themselves, but like what the fuck I mean? Just last week I woke up and I go get my coffee and right before my first set, my mom's boyfriend screams Tiff, your grandfather. Just shit all over the floor. So I'm up there grunting and fucking annoyed, but I went down there on my hands and knees and I'm scrubbing the shit out of the carpet. Why? Because, a, I'm not a fucking filthy animal and, b, because I'm not going to let my grandfather sit in his own filth, because I sort of care about him, even though he's mean, and this is their fucking daughter, like that's my grandfather. So, like normally, you would care less about, like I would say, a grandparent than you would about your own children. What do you call them? Your brood, you know?
wendy:Absolutely. I loved my grandparents, like my grandma, sally, and my great-grand-. I loved some of my grandparents, but there's just something about when you know they're not your responsibility. In the same way, you didn't nurture them, you didn't watch them grow, for them to like to create life and to bring them, to bring her to a certain point, and then just decide I'm going to ghost you literally fucking ghost you under my own roof and not mention you to the neighbors and pretend that you're not there, as you said, during the holidays, and walk past your smell and knowing that you're not doing anything physical to better yourself. If your kid feels sad, you notice, you know. If your kid needs to take a bath, you notice. You tell them hey, you've got to get up and take care of this, you've got to take care of yourself. Imagine like ghosting somebody in your own proximity. You know what I mean. I can't.
tiffany:I can't imagine that, because I could never do that to somebody, even if I friggin' hate it.
wendy:Right, this is the strangest fucked up case that you've presented so far, I know it is.
tiffany:It's fucked up, dude. Like it's not cut and dry like most of the other ones where, like somebody gets murdered and you're like he did it, let's put him in jail, like this is more like like you can't wrap your mind around this, like I can't wrap my mind around half the shit we talk about, but for this one it's. I don't know if it's worse, like because she's suffered for like 12 years or what, but I just this one really like fucked with me.
wendy:Yeah it. It fucks with me because I think of the level of neglect and, like you know, with a killer, like somebody that goes out, it's like they didn't want the responsibility of killing her, but they still didn't care enough that she lived. There's 100% guarantee she, they didn't care about her quality of life. And when you don't care about the quality of somebody's life, especially when it's your own offspring, it makes me feel like, like, what the like, aside from the, what the fuck is wrong with people?
tiffany:I feel like killers themselves, right, they it's. It's it's like, usually fast. It's like, oh, I murdered somebody, I shot him dead, I stabbed him, I suffocated him, whatever, but it's like, it's like maybe it takes an hour, maybe it takes six hours if you're torturing him, but, like, to me, I feel like it's worse to leave somebody in their own excrement for 12 fucking years than to just murder somebody, Because, like and I'm not saying one murders better than the other I feel bad for the victims that get killed, but like, I feel like 12 years of torture is a long fucking time. That's a lot of fucking torture, like to put somebody through. So I sometimes feel like this may actually be worse. It may actually be worse to like I would rather somebody get it over with my suffering instead of having to suffer. If I knew I had to suffer for 12 years, or if I could suffer for like an hour, I'd probably pick an hour Right.
wendy:You know, and these guys just let her live like that, and it's you know what? You're right. I agree with you. I think that leaving somebody that way for 12 years I mean she was tortured it blows my mind, it breaks my heart and I really cannot believe that. You told me they're not in prison right now.
tiffany:Well, wait, I got more, a little more here, so I'll tell you about that. Some sources say that their face in public scrutiny for the conditions that she was in, well, like fuck, yeah they are. I mean, did you think that that was going to end well, leaving her like that, that people weren't going to judge you, that no one would find out? The defense attorney said that their defense is that Sheila and Clay had medical conditions that hindered their ability to care for their daughter. I am very interested to see that being presented. I really am that. The attorney claims that they have experts to confirm that they have a medical condition. But if they had such bad medical conditions again, why didn't they find help, a nurse or anything, and why did they look completely healthy in their pictures at their jobs to their congregation? So I really don't believe any of that that they had medical. I mean, she was taking care of herself so she could have easily wiped her daughter down and had them deliver a new fucking sofa.
wendy:Oh yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say too. I mean, I would go without a shower before I'd let one of my. I would go hungry and without a shower, and most good parents would probably agree with me before they let their child in that situation.
tiffany:Yeah, I know I can look at some gory shit and not feel sick. This girl was literally melting into the couch. She was decomposing in her own filth on the sofa. I'm trying to give you guys a mental picture because this is a weird case to prosecute and I think that they should take all these things into account when they prosecute these people. She was a part of the sofa. She was literally stuck to the sofa and underneath of her was a soup. The floor beneath the sofa was caving in from the amount of excrement and urine that had soaked into the fucking floorboards. It was awful.
tiffany:If you want to look them up, feel free, but I gotta warn you they are the most disgusting pictures I've ever seen. They were also the most sad pictures I have ever seen. You can visibly see the neglect that had taken place for 12 years. I don't feel bad for our parents. I hope they get sentenced to murder because there is absolutely no excuse for that. The district attorney said that they will not take any plea deals, which I'm real happy about. I'm guessing that they want them to pay as much as I do for what they did to that poor girl. So just stay tuned for updates on this case. I'm not gonna write another episode about it, but I will give updates if I find any about what they get charged with, and that's the case of Lacey Fletcher.
wendy:Wow, girl. No wonder you had some emotional issues this week of writing this script.
tiffany:Yeah, it was pretty bad. I felt really bad for this girl and I just I wanted to bring this up because there's a lot of people in nursing homes and older people and people that are in these. We talked about asylums and stuff too. There's a lot of people that neglect those who can't care for themselves or can't mentally care for themselves, like even people with mental disorders, physical disorders, disabilities and stuff like that, and they completely depend on their caregivers.
tiffany:And, like I said before, I've taken care of three old people my grandmother, I wiped her and changed her and I fed her, I clothed her all the way up until her death from lung cancer. Like I changed her tubes, I changed her pee bags. I did everything me and my mom. And then when my other grandma was dying, we brought her home when she had a stroke and I cared for her and I had to roll her on her side, like when she was in a pretty much a coma, coming home to die after a stroke and a heart attack, and it was her dying wish to not be resuscitated. So she didn't want to be on machines and I had to take care of her too and I couldn't imagine just leaving somebody there and walking by and just not caring for them. I just think that I mean I'm getting teary-eyed just talking about it, cause like that is, it's just, it's too much Like.
tiffany:It's just way too much Like I even my grandfather he's old now, he's 92 or whatever and I care for him and I clean up his shit and he gets on my damn nerves. He's nasty, he's mean, and I clean up after him too when I take care of him and I worry about him. And these people are completely dependent on you, like your children are completely dependent on you, and for anyone to treat a person like this, they deserve to be in fucking jail. And you know what? I hope that the people that they're dependent on to eat their meals and give them the things that they need while in prison don't do that for them, because I want them to get a taste of their own medicine. I really do.
wendy:And.
tiffany:I looked at the pictures of these parents, sheila and Clay, and they looked like the all American Midwestern type people, even though they're from Louisiana, so they're like from down south, but they looked like Midwestern people that were just part of the community. They looked like they were in a church. They looked like they were middle class, upstanding, rural community living in a nice house kind of people Like you would invite them to your Christmas parties. You wouldn't think anything if they told you alive, because they just look like the type of people you can trust. Even at their jobs they did really well, people liked them. So for them to claim some kind of fucked up defense like that, just it's just like it. To me it's almost like reaching for straws at that point and I just hope they get what they deserve.
wendy:Amen to that.
tiffany:So in lieu of that, I'm gonna end it here. If you guys have any questions, concerns or you want to write in a listener's story or something like that, you can hit us up at rogueandwicketyahoocom. You can check out our Patreon at wwwpatreoncom slash rogueandwicket and if you wanna subscribe, it's a $5. For the tier one, you get polls and exclusive content. Tier two you get a bonus episode every month. Tier three you get two bonus episodes every month. Also, you can check out Wendy's book. It's for sale on roguepoetnet. It's called Sage it's the bomb.
tiffany:You can also check out our TikTok, instagram, facebook and YouTube channel, all under the name rogueandwicket or rogueandwicket podcast. Also, if you would be so inclined to give us a five-star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify or whatever podcast platform that you listen to, it would be greatly appreciated, because we end up on the algorithm better that way and we like being on the algorithm because then it keeps us making episodes and it helps fund us a little bit, because one day we would hope to make some money from this, because it's wild out there, it's hard, and we do this for you guys for free. So, if you like it, show your appreciation to your fellow creators and go on our thing and give us a five-star review, because we love you, we fucking love you. All right guys, that's it, and thank you, wendy, for joining me today.
wendy:And thank you for your wonderful procured research, as always, and all of the emotional ups and downs that it entailed this week. You really did a great job, thank you.
tiffany:Thank you very much. All right until next time. If it had been a city, I would have had a mass worker or a nation of 15.
wendy:I would have killed until it got me down, I would have been able to reach my way out of it. They are a product of the times. These are blood thirsty times.
